The Kekoa TJ Custom Knife Log

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Kekoa
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The Kekoa TJ Custom Knife Log

Post by Kekoa »

I recently received a beautiful custom Gyuto made to my own specifications by taz575 (aka Tim Johnson) and since I will be spending lots of time with it I wanted to start a thread to document my observations in depth.

For starters here are the specs:

It is 225mm long, 52mm tall, about 3.2mm at the spine, with 80crV2 carbon steel at 62hrc. The profile is basically a taller, longer version of a Kurosaki Raijin, the grind is a high full convex, and the handle is an octagonal sandwich construction with reddish wood laminate scales and white paper micarta liner and frame. It weighs in at about 7.84 oz.
TJKekoaGyuto.JPG
Initial impression out of the box, it looks exactly how I hoped, the shape, the blade finish, and the handle are all excellent looking. Everything just looks "right" and according to my preference. This shape combines my favorite parts of the look of a Gyuto tip and a Santoku tip. A usable tip, but not too pointy either. I did notice one small oddity that doesn't seem to effect functionality. The handle isn't quite centered, it is slightly high.
knifeNeck.JPG
I had Tim hot glue it so it could be removed if I ever felt inclined to make my own handle and try it out, so the handle can be moved fairly easily, but I don't see any reason to adjust it because it feels just fine in use.

When I picked it up I was a little surprised at how large the handle was, from the pictures it is always hard to judge proportions, but going and cutting things with it was very comfortable. The rounding of the spine is so nice and feels great. I mentioned this in the new knife thread but it is worth saying again, it feels bizarrely similar to the 240mm Gihei I had for a bit. The heft is there, but this knife balances better than the Gihei, and more importantly it is a higher, thinner grind that moves through food without the constant threat of wedging too much. This knife gets almost as good food release with much better cutting feel. Thin behind the edge too, great initial food penetration. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that it behaves somewhat similar to the Gihei because they are around the same thickness the difference being Tim's convex grind or Gihei's typical Japanese "sabre grind" if it can be called that. This custom also has a substantially more performant tip than the Gihei, the last 6th of the blade cuts with surprising ease. It's a nice tip.

Curiously my Yoshimitsu Fugen is also the same spine thickness, but is noticeably less substantial, it has a more aggressive distal taper, and what I'm guessing might be called a diamond grind. It has a hollow ground primary bevel, then what seems to be a second hollow forged into the blade face. Both of those things make it a lighter knife for the thickness, and more slicy, but for having such un-flat blade faces, and a kurouchi finish to go with it, it is surprising to me that my Yoshimitsu can still stick to some ingredients more than I like. I've never heard this said before but it does seem like a good patina really helps reduce stickiness quite a bit, at least on that particular knife. My custom though has inherently good food release with the convex faces, and I expect with a good patina, will just get smoother feeling as time goes on.

I still have much to get to know about this knife, I've only used it a few times so far, but my thought right now is that this is a fine example of the weight class of knives I typically look at from Japanese makers such as Masakage, Anryu, Hinoura, Tanaka, and Hatsukokoro. It is reminiscent of a workhorse, but still able to be precise. Tim said someone else coined the term, but I liked the word he used to refer to it, it is a workpony. My intention is to have it take over as my primary knife in place of my Yoshimitsu. Having owned a thinner Santoku, I can imagine myself wanting a thinner, lighter Gyuto to accompany this one eventually, but I believe this is my ideal all-arounder, it should handle anything I throw at it without a hitch. :)

This isn't a great picture, but after cutting some apples, I'm starting to see some color. I'm looking forward to a nice patina across those wide blade faces!
startOfPatina.JPG
Also as a side note, it came with a nice edge. If you read this Tim, I'd be curious to know how you put the finished edge on it. It was toothy enough to bite, but smooth enough to feel good through dense produce. It is a similar effect to what I get using a #2000 grit edge off my Naniwa Super Stone, but a distinctly different feel. Smoother, but still aggressive enough to please.
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Re: The Kekoa TJ Custom Knife Log

Post by TheLegalRazor »

I like the blade profile. It looks like a long, tall santoku. I have a Gabe Mabry/Doberman Forge gyuto in 80crV2 and the patina developed nicely with cutting meats.
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Re: The Kekoa TJ Custom Knife Log

Post by Kekoa »

TheLegalRazor wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 7:35 pm I like the blade profile. It looks like a long, tall santoku. I have a Gabe Mabry/Doberman Forge gyuto in 80crV2 and the patina developed nicely with cutting meats.
Feel free to post a picture of it here, I'd love to see it!

I found that my Yoshimitsu developed a nice thick patina that has prevented any rust formation in normal use after cutting up roasted chicken. Started off adding some blue to the patina, but has since become a thick uniform grey.

How do you find 80crV2 to compare to common Japanese carbon steels, assuming you own some anyway? I'm going to be curious to see how it holds up next to White #1. Based on my not-a-metallurgist analysis of it's elements (read inexperienced assessment), I figured it could be slightly less edge retention than White #1 due to having less carbon. It has some chromium and vanadium added, but I think it effects the heat treatment properties more than anything else if I understood the Knife Steel Nerds article I read properly.

I had debated between 52100 and 80crV2, I think 52100 would have had better overall performance, but I choose 80crV2 because I have been very interested in the steel for quite some time, and it was more reactive than 52100, which was a positive trait in my case. 80crV2 is very likely to be the steel I use if I can get myself a grinder and make an attempt at making my own knives.
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Re: The Kekoa TJ Custom Knife Log

Post by aporigine »

From the previous thread, it looks to me like the white spacer is one piece, with the frame elements abutting above&below.

Did I get that right? In any case, nicely done.
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Re: The Kekoa TJ Custom Knife Log

Post by taz575 »

I tend to do larger (girthier) handles as they are more comfy to me and balance out a heavier knife better. With the 1/8" stock, it was heavier than I normally use, so I went with a handle more like 240mm size to balance it out better. The offset higher with the handle adds to knuckle clearance.

For the edge, I used a 400/1000 diamond stone (similar to the honeycomb ones CKTG sells) and then stropped on my leather 14 micron and 3 micron diamond strop. I found this gives an aggressive edge that can cut across paper towels when held vertical, shave hair and smoothly cut receipt paper. Bitey and polished at the same time! I've been using this edge on my kitchen and edc blade a lot lately and it works really well!

The edge profile is a long flat spot at the heel a little over halfway down the blade and a gentle curve to the tip, with a less pointy tip than a k tip or true funayuki. I like thin tips for onion dicing and finer cutting, but the more blunt tip profile puts more steel in the tip for durability even though its thin.

I did a couple Yosimitsu blanks and they have a large hollow for a lot of the blade, which brings the weight down. I have one left with a hollow ground for the top 4/5 of the blade and a laserish convex for the bottom portion, similar to a Takeda grind. Makes it much lighter and more laserish, but sometimes they feel less substantial, especially in a san mai blade.

Yes, the handle spacer is 1 piece and abutts the ferrule section and main body:
20240229_160844.jpg
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Re: The Kekoa TJ Custom Knife Log

Post by Kerneldrop »

I really like that profile and height. Very nice
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Re: The Kekoa TJ Custom Knife Log

Post by Kekoa »

taz575 wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 9:43 pm I tend to do larger (girthier) handles as they are more comfy to me and balance out a heavier knife better. With the 1/8" stock, it was heavier than I normally use, so I went with a handle more like 240mm size to balance it out better. The offset higher with the handle adds to knuckle clearance.
I think the bigger handle definitely helped balance it, it's better balance than the Gihei I had, granted that knife was also a little longer.

My brother had speculated that the handle being offset was to add knuckle clearance, I guess he was right! I have never seen a handle offset before, but it feels good in use.
taz575 wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 9:43 pm For the edge, I used a 400/1000 diamond stone (similar to the honeycomb ones CKTG sells) and then stropped on my leather 14 micron and 3 micron diamond strop. I found this gives an aggressive edge that can cut across paper towels when held vertical, shave hair and smoothly cut receipt paper. Bitey and polished at the same time! I've been using this edge on my kitchen and edc blade a lot lately and it works really well!
Yeah, I'm liking this edge! I'm usually pretty quick to put my own edges on a new blade, but I'm not surprised that I didn't feel the need on this one. I'm gonna let it ride as long as I can, but I'll be curious to get to sharpen it for the first time when the time comes around.

I just got the chance to try it out on some russets this morning, not very big ones, but man, no sticking whatsoever! Totally smooth cut. Very happy with that.
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Re: The Kekoa TJ Custom Knife Log

Post by taz575 »

With the heft of the blade, I kept the handle chunkier to help it balance. A lighter handle felt out of place on it; I have some take off cheap Wa handles I use to get an idea of length and stuff and one that feels good on a lighter laser 240 felt way odd on this knife!

I have big hands and like to have plenty of knuckle clearance as well as finger clearance above the edge on a pinch grip. I didn't want to thin the tang too far to get knuckle clearance, so I off set the handle a bit so I can keep the tang beefier. Some 210mm feel too short height wise and when I pinch grip, it feels like my fingers along the blade almost hit the board and are super close to the edge!

This is the area here near the heel I am talking about getting finger clearance with the edge/board:
Screenshot 2024-03-16 151518.jpg
Screenshot 2024-03-16 151518.jpg (12.19 KiB) Viewed 572 times
I didn't even try your blade on waterstones...lol! Just went right to the diamonds. It gives me a toothy edge that slices like crazy, kinda like a JNat on steroids! I really like that JNat tooth to a polished edge and the diamond stone/diamond strop combo gives me that very quickly.

It's a touch harder than the Doberman 80CRV2 (62 on my Wilson 1JR tester), but it should be fairly easy to sharpen on the stones since it is fairly low alloy. I imagine it will be similar to White or blue steel at the same rockwell on the stones. Stropping should also bring the edge back easily, too!

Looking forward to seeing your updates!
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Re: The Kekoa TJ Custom Knife Log

Post by Kekoa »

I got to try it slicing onions for the first time tonight. I think Tim definitely has better knife skills than me, you won't see me do anything as fast as he did in his testing videos, ha ha. At first it took a bit more effort than what I get from my Yoshimitsu, but then I found that with a swift enough movement, a guillotine cut is maybe what it is called, it cut nicely. I only had to cut one onion so I didn't get to experiment too much.

I'm looking forward to tomorrow, I think I'll be making a couple Instant Pots of chicken pot pie soup. That will involve 4 cups worth of diced onions, as well as equal amounts chopped celery and sliced carrots! Oh yeah, and a pile of russets which I expect to be a breeze based on potato testing earlier today. Tomorrow I'll get pictures of the prep, with the knife featured of course. ;)
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Re: The Kekoa TJ Custom Knife Log

Post by Kekoa »

Did pre-prep for soup this morning, it was 4 cups of carrots and the same amount of celery.

It handled medium sized carrots pretty easy, I was able to get into a nice rhythm as I went. I could definitely see a thinner knife doing better on carrots, my best performing carrot knife was my Yahiko Ginsan Santoku when I had it, but it was too short for me. Despite taking more force than my old Santoku though, this knife performed very smoothly and predictably which allowed me to finish quicker than I usually do using my Yoshimitsu.

It pretty much just falls through celery, and the tip just falls through even faster. :lol: Nothing to be desired as far as celery is concerned, that's for sure!

Later this afternoon will be cubed potatoes and diced onions.
carrotPile.JPG
carrotAndCeleryBowl.JPG
I have to admit the way the thinner tip performs with these convex grinds has me wondering how a knife with a less overall spine width would perform with the same type of grind. Seems like the food release is extremely effective with this set up.
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Re: The Kekoa TJ Custom Knife Log

Post by XexoX »

Kekoa wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2024 1:57 pm Did pre-prep for soup this morning, it was 4 cups of carrots and the same amount of celery.

It handled medium sized carrots pretty easy, I was able to get into a nice rhythm as I went. I could definitely see a thinner knife doing better on carrots, my best performing carrot knife was my Yahiko Ginsan Santoku when I had it, but it was too short for me. Despite taking more force than my old Santoku though, this knife performed very smoothly and predictably which allowed me to finish quicker than I usually do using my Yoshimitsu.

It pretty much just falls through celery, and the tip just falls through even faster. :lol: Nothing to be desired as far as celery is concerned, that's for sure!

Later this afternoon will be cubed potatoes and diced onions.

I have to admit the way the thinner tip performs with these convex grinds has me wondering how a knife with a less overall spine width would perform with the same type of grind. Seems like the food release is extremely effective with this set up.
Nice cutting board too.
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Re: The Kekoa TJ Custom Knife Log

Post by Kekoa »

Well, it happens to be only about $16, ha ha. Teak Haus, TJ Max.
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Re: The Kekoa TJ Custom Knife Log

Post by Kekoa »

Unfortunately we were in a bit of a hurry and the fam was wanting to get back to a St. Louis soccer game on TV so I had to enlist some help with the onions and potatoes while I handled the chicken. I'm the one least bothered by raw meat handling so I only got to spend time with my Dexter boning knife this evening.

Now I'm trying to come up with something requiring diced onions to make tomorrow... :geek:
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Re: The Kekoa TJ Custom Knife Log

Post by XexoX »

Kekoa wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2024 7:16 pm Unfortunately we were in a bit of a hurry and the fam was wanting to get back to a St. Louis soccer game on TV so I had to enlist some help with the onions and potatoes while I handled the chicken. I'm the one least bothered by raw meat handling so I only got to spend time with my Dexter boning knife this evening.

Now I'm trying to come up with something requiring diced onions to make tomorrow... :geek:
Potato soup?
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Re: The Kekoa TJ Custom Knife Log

Post by TheLegalRazor »

Kekoa wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 8:04 pm
TheLegalRazor wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 7:35 pm I like the blade profile. It looks like a long, tall santoku. I have a Gabe Mabry/Doberman Forge gyuto in 80crV2 and the patina developed nicely with cutting meats.
Feel free to post a picture of it here, I'd love to see it!
I'll send you a photo of the Doberman in 80crV2 by pm. I don't want to hijack your thread with a photo of another knife.
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Re: The Kekoa TJ Custom Knife Log

Post by trancher »

Kekoa wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2024 7:16 pm Now I'm trying to come up with something requiring diced onions to make tomorrow... :geek:
omelettes, curry, a stock, fajitas, seasoned taco meat .... :geek:
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Re: The Kekoa TJ Custom Knife Log

Post by aporigine »

trancher wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2024 10:04 pm
Kekoa wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2024 7:16 pm Now I'm trying to come up with something requiring diced onions to make tomorrow... :geek:
omelettes, curry, a stock, fajitas, seasoned taco meat .... :geek:
mmmmm tacos
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Re: The Kekoa TJ Custom Knife Log

Post by taz575 »

With starting with thinner stock, the area behind the edge usually is thinner and the thinness goes higher up the blade, too. There is less spine to push through the ingredients as well. When I do a convex, the spine often gets a bit thinner, too, so 3/32" stock doesn't always end up 3/32" thick at the spine or even at the thickest in the blade due to the convexing.

This is the choil shot from the Nitro V 210mm funayuki I did as a pass around a while back and was 3/32" starting thickness, which is often oversized to around .10" due to mill scale being left on the barstock:
opal funy.jpg
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This is the choil shot from a Yoshimitsu W1 San Mai 210mm Blank I got from Mark, which was around .085-.095" at the start IIRC. This one got ground way down to eliminate the slight hollow forged in to both sides, so it got much thinner and the spine was around .-75-.08" IIRC:
Funy1 choil.jpg
Funy1 choil.jpg (15.47 KiB) Viewed 408 times
Versus your choil:
8c3.jpg
The thinner the starting stock, the thinner I can get the edge down to typically with the spine full thickness. This is the magnacut gyuto I did with the S grind from 3/32" stock (ie .100") and how thin I was able to get it behind the edge.
421555460_10102209015936550_1969820888063249874_n.jpg
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Re: The Kekoa TJ Custom Knife Log

Post by taz575 »

And this is a S30V santoku that is .135-.140" at the spine going for a convex with the felt soft platens:
F3 felt convex.jpg
So the thicker the spine, the more convexing you can get, but the area at the edge is a bit thicker and thickens up quicker. Starting with thinner stock allows a thinner overall blade and thinner further up the blade, especially if you aren't trying to keep the spine the full thickness, but that also introduces more flex to the blade, too. I will measure the magnacut gyuto at the spine and some other areas, but the S Grind takes out the thickest part of the blade close to the spine, so it acts like a much thinner blade!
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Re: The Kekoa TJ Custom Knife Log

Post by Kekoa »

trancher wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2024 10:04 pm
Kekoa wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2024 7:16 pm Now I'm trying to come up with something requiring diced onions to make tomorrow... :geek:
omelettes, curry, a stock, fajitas, seasoned taco meat .... :geek:
I'm planning to do some meat loaf tonight hopefully, that will take some onion. We'll see if it pans out.
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