Where to go after SG 1K

CKTG has a large amount of Edge Pro products so we've dedicated a forum to questions on Edge Pro sharpening systems, accessories and techniques.
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cprains1
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Where to go after SG 1K

Post by cprains1 »

I'm phasing out my EP stock stones and need a little advice on which Shapton Glass stone to buy next. I've been using the SG 320 and 1K and need a finishing stone. I had originally settled on jumping from 1k to 4k, but I now see that the bundled Shapton set here at CKTG recently changed and now jumps directly from 1k to 6k. Is this the preferred option according to the current thinking? I think I remember one author's post on this forum saying he was less enthusiastic about the 4k SG stone than the others in the line.

Your thoughts?
zekepa
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Re: Where to go after SG 1K

Post by zekepa »

I haven't used my Apex in quite awhile, since I decided to learn how to freehand sharpen, when I was using it I had mix of stock EP, Shapton Pro and a 10K chosera. I found that I very rarely used any of the higher grit stones. Since starting to sharpen freehand I usually go to a 1 or 2K stone then will do a couple of of strops on maybe a Shapton pro 5k or most likely a balsa or leather strop loaded with 3u diamond paste.

I don't really care for the SP5k at this point mostly because I'm not good enough at using it and the knife ends up feeling duller coming off of that stone than when I started, hence just doing a few strops on it sometimes. I debated on getting a different higher grit stone to try, and still may but for the time being I decided to go with loaded strops. Just an option to consider. Mark has EP sized strops as well as larger ones for stand alone use and the compounds in stock.
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Re: Where to go after SG 1K

Post by Radar53 »

Hi there cprains and welcome to our forum.

I have a number of SG stones for both freehand and the EdgePro, but unfortunately nothing for either at around the 3 - 5k grits, so I can't add or comment about the SG4k. I hope that someone else can provide more info on the SG4k.

If not, what I found with the EP stones was that on high hardness (RH62+) or highly alloyed steels, they were just not up to the job when it came to the "removal" of metal. However what I did find was that once a bevel or an edge had been established (using third party stones) that the EP 1000 (read approx 3+k equivalent for Shapton stones) and EP1200 (say 4k equivalent), worked well at refining / polishing. Unfortunately the EP1200 doesn't look like it is still available.

So, if you decide against the SG4k, a backstop position could be to get the standard EP1000 here https://www.edgeproinc.com/sharpening-a ... ing-stone/ at USD17

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Re: Where to go after SG 1K

Post by ethompson »

I’ve never used a system like the edge pro, but I use and enjoy the Shapton Glass bench stones. I think the 4k is excellent and don’t see why you’d want to go further than that for a general use kitchen knife.
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Re: Where to go after SG 1K

Post by Jeff B »

ethompson wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 7:28 pm I’ve never used a system like the edge pro, but I use and enjoy the Shapton Glass bench stones. I think the 4k is excellent and don’t see why you’d want to go further than that for a general use kitchen knife.
Totally agree with this post.
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Re: Where to go after SG 1K

Post by cliff »

I have the 4K HC glass stone. I think I'm the odd one out, but I tend to finish on a 1K for things like butchery and tomatoes and go higher than 4K for my general purpose kitchen knives. It's a personal preference. Many, many people like the blend of polish and tooth you get with the 4K stone.

ETA - the jump from 1K to 6K is totally fine. The question is, what kind of knives? What kind of steel? What kind of tasks?
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Re: Where to go after SG 1K

Post by cprains1 »

The knives I'm using these days are mostly in the 59-61 HRC range (several Hitachi steels,) and mostly for general kitchen use. No single bevels. I only occasionally sharpen outdoor/bushcraft knives in steels harder than that, although I am considering adding a G3 knife to the kitchen as my next purchase (62 HRCish.) I was originally intending to stop at the SG1k, but I found the edge a little too toothy for my tastes on general work. I do have the EP stock 1k, which I like very much, but (and I know this sounds terrible,) it's only 3mm thick. With the SG stones coming in almost twice as thick, it changes my angle enough when transitioning that I don't completely reach the edge of the bevel on the thinner stone without busting out the angle cube or Sharpie and recalibrating each time. I'm so lazy that it seems worth it to me to grab another stone of equivalent thickness so I don't have to go through all that. I do agree that grit-wise, the 4k sounds like a good choice, but it just gave me pause to wonder why they took the 4k out of the bundled set and replaced it with the 6k.
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Re: Where to go after SG 1K

Post by Jeff B »

cprains1 wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 10:26 pm ...I do agree that grit-wise, the 4k sounds like a good choice, but it just gave me pause to wonder why they took the 4k out of the bundled set and replaced it with the 6k.
On occasion stones will get changed in those sets because that is what is in stock at the time, I wouldn't read too much into it. It's very easy to change up grits in a set like that and it still be an acceptable progression. Going from a 1k to a 4k or 6k is both totally acceptable, which one you choose to use is just personal preference.
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Re: Where to go after SG 1K

Post by stevem627 »

I use a Shapton Glass 4000 and I’m very happy with the results. I seldom see the need to go higher unless I am sharpening a knife for refined cutting like a single bevel.
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Re: Where to go after SG 1K

Post by cliff »

What Jeff said. I would guess most people finish their daily driver between 3K and 6K, but there's a lot of personal preference involved.
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Re: Where to go after SG 1K

Post by cprains1 »

My concerns about the 4k stone have been allayed. Taking into account what each of you has added, I think I'll be going with the SG 4k as the consensus choice. If I need to try to impress someone with a mirror finish, I can always hit the strops after that. (That doesn't happen enough to mention so far. Either the high polish or impressing anyone.)

Thank you all kindly for your input; you've been very helpful!

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Re: Where to go after SG 1K

Post by Jeff B »

You'll impress yourself once you feel the difference a strop will add to your edges. My father used to always tell me that an edge isn't finished until it's been stropped on leather. I didn't truly understand until I bought my first strop and then I saw the light.
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Re: Where to go after SG 1K

Post by ColonelJLloyd »

Jeff B wrote: Sat Aug 27, 2022 8:45 am You'll impress yourself once you feel the difference a strop will add to your edges. My father used to always tell me that an edge isn't finished until it's been stropped on leather. I didn't truly understand until I bought my first strop and then I saw the light.
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Re: Where to go after SG 1K

Post by taz575 »

Late to this convo here, but I've been playing with using a 1000-1200 stone, deburring and then stropping. My strops are loaded with 8 micron and 2 micron compounds on leather and I've been very impressed with that edge off of those! I used to go to a Rika 5K after the 1000 stone, but with the strops after the 1K, I am getting just as nice of an edge and it has some tooth left to it as well. I started playing with this progression when using Elmax, M390, S35VN and other more alloyed steels/"super steels" that are harder to sharpen and take longer on the finer stones I have. I tend to mess up my angles with the finer stones, and the strops help convex the edge and bit and take some of the angle work out. With a guided system, it may not come into play as much, but with freehand, I was pretty surprised at how nice the edge was off the strops from a 1K finish.
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Re: Where to go after SG 1K

Post by David_R »

I have the SG stones up to 16K. The 4K is fine, but I think it's mostly unnecessary. The 2K is a good stone. At the 4K and higher, I get a more polished edge. I don't get a better cutting edge. For for mirror bevel, there are other ways to do it.

I primarily use bench stones for kitchen knives and the EP diamond stones when I use my EP, most for folding knives. If you're ok spending the money, the EP diamond matrix stones are better than the SG stones in every way (imo). They cut better, they cut faster, and they wear more slowly.

The diamond stones were a game changer for me, particularly on harder steels or high carbide steels. Sharpening VG-10 or something more challenging like ZDP-189 or S35VN is nearly impossible with the EP stones or the SG stones. I use them on most steels now, but particularly appreciate them on the harder to sharpen steels.
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Re: Where to go after SG 1K

Post by David_R »

cprains1 wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 10:26 pm it's only 3mm thick. With the SG stones coming in almost twice as thick, it changes my angle enough when transitioning that I don't completely reach the edge of the bevel on the thinner stone without busting out the angle cube or Sharpie and recalibrating each time. I'm so lazy that it seems worth it to me to grab another stone of equivalent thickness so I don't have to go through all that.
Late addition to my other late reply: get a stop collar for your EP. This is a game changer in terms of different stones. I use it for every stone, even ones that appear to have the same thickness. Once you learn how to use one it's simple and quick to use and adds no time to your sharpening, and ensures that your stones are hitting the same part of the blade.

I also agree 100% on the stropping comments. I prefer wood to leather. I believe it gives me a better edge and less convexing than leather. This may me all in my head. Either way, stropping is a game changer imo. I frequently stop and 800 or 1K and then strop. I also frequently strop when a knife is not as sharp. This brings the edge back nicely, but you will have decreasing edge retention with each stropping and will eventually need to sharpen.

I also don't bother with different grits. I have several but have settled on 1 micron diamond spray - this seems to work for everything. You can get a balsa strop for the EP for ~$10. I bought some EP blanks and went to the hobby shop and bought some balsa. Now I have multiple strops. When they get loaded I gently sand them on 220 grit sandpaper. When they get to thin I pry off the old wood and glue on a new piece.

Apologies for all the opinion. I got going there...
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