Useful Edge Pro Accessories

CKTG has a large amount of Edge Pro products so we've dedicated a forum to questions on Edge Pro sharpening systems, accessories and techniques.
BillyJack
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Re: Useful Edge Pro Accessories

Post by BillyJack »

These diamond stones are not like your typical diamond stones. The diamond is impregnated in type of matrix. The stones feel smooth, not rough. It's hard to describe. The edge I get is a very high polish. I cannot see any of the scratches. Have you seen or heard of the two new polishing stones EP is making...the 2300 and 4000? Those are diamonds, but they polish very well.
Radar53
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Re: Useful Edge Pro Accessories

Post by Radar53 »

OK Billy, it seems I might have got a bit confused here. I read your last post as you saying that you had got some low grit diamond stones and my following comment relates to that maybe incorrect assumption on my part. I apologise if that is so, as I don't want to confuse the issue.

I am not familiar with the latest EP diamond stones, but if I am reading you correctly we are talking about pretty fine grit ratings. I have a full range of 3M diamond tapes from JIS 120 grit through to 150,000 grit, and the 3M diamonds leave very nice scratch patterns. I think as a generalisation some diamonds leave nicer patterns than others - the Atoma plates seem to leave deeper scratches grit to grit than the equivalent 3M grits.

I also think that diamonds regardless, leave deeper scratches than the equivalent synthetic stone. For example my EP1200 (5k JIS grit), leaves a finer finish than my Nubatama 5k (which has a bit of tooth) and my 5k diamond tapes have slightly more tooth again. Just my experience here. I prefer to use ordinary stones 90+% of the time & only use diamonds for heavy lifting (140 grit or below) and on really hard, heavily alloyed super steels. Others use diamonds more freely

So for example after using my Atoma 140 diamond plate, I always follow that with my Nubatama150 just to get a more even scratch pattern, but with the 3M tapes at 5k, the difference is less & I don't bother unless I'm looking for a mirror finish.

I'm no expert on the differences in diamonds or the ongoing comparisons as the grit number rises to other diamond options or synthetics, so the above is just my observations so far. Thus take them with a grain of salt.

Hopefully someone with more in depth experience can chime in here Ken123 especially.
Cheers Grant

Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not going to get you!!
BillyJack
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Re: Useful Edge Pro Accessories

Post by BillyJack »

Yeah sorry....I was referring to leveling the stones. I am looking to purchase the Atoma 140 and 400 for leveling the stock EP stones. I do not have any diamond stones for sharpening, other then the new EP stones. I do want to purchase the 220 SG stone and maybe the 500. I might buy all them, all the way up to 16k. Thanks for the insight Radar.
Radar53
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Re: Useful Edge Pro Accessories

Post by Radar53 »

No probs at all. Just a couple more comments. The SG500 is just a fantastic stone, however I didn't gel with the SG220 initially. It felt gritty & coarse to use, didn't seem to cut as hard as I would have expected so I used to just use my Nub150, finish that with very, very light pressure (gives a much finer scratch pattern) and then jump to my SG500. Someone here suggested that maybe the first 0.5mm of the surface was somehow compromised during the production or finishing of the stone and that I should give it a good flattening. I have done this and it has certainly improved the stone's performance, but I have to say it's still not a stone that I enjoy using.

Shapton Glass are one-and-done stones and I love them, for getting stuff done - no fuss - no drama. But it's like watching black & white TV, rather than colour. Other stones leave different finishes, feel different, have different feedback, respond differently to pressure etc, and for me I like to explore that to just expand and develop my experience. So if you're one-and-done the by all means go SG all out, but if sharpening is more than just a means to an end, then maybe consider trying one or two of the other very good stones. Not trying to preach at all, just something to think about YMMV
Cheers Grant

Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not going to get you!!
Dieter
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Re: Useful Edge Pro Accessories

Post by Dieter »

I purchased a bench mount. Should have gotten one of these a long time ago. Rock solid.
nakneker
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Re: Useful Edge Pro Accessories

Post by nakneker »

Dieter wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:49 pm I purchased a bench mount. Should have gotten one of these a long time ago. Rock solid.
Can you post a pic?
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Radar53
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Re: Useful Edge Pro Accessories

Post by Radar53 »

Dieter wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:49 pm I purchased a bench mount. Should have gotten one of these a long time ago. Rock solid.
Hi there Dieter and welcome to the forum. There's lots of different approaches and views on this forum and I find these just open my mind to different ways of doing things. It also has become clear to me that there is no "one-right-way" to do something, so don't be afraid to just try something, see what happens, evaluate the outcome and just have fun & enjoy the journey.

Just a thought from me on the bench mount. I have taught a few people to sharpen knives on the EdgePro and as a general rule all (including myself) have used way too much pressure. When doing this the EP can "wobble" a bit here & there. I think that this is a natural thing because most people's experience of sharpening is with crap knives and crap stones, where unless you use a lot of pressure you don't get any metal removal.

The standard EdgePro stones are a bit of a mixed bag in that the low grit stones don't cut very aggressively and for me, this led to more pressure to try & get some results. However, once the heavy lifting has been done, their higher grit stones aren't too bad, because they are just refining an already established edge.

But the night & day revelation is changing up to third party stones, Shapton Glass, Shapton Pro, Nubatama, Chosera, Cerax, Naniwa and others. This has really been the biggest move forward for me. They cut way better & thus need less pressure. In fact they generally work & last better with less pressure so a double win. I now use less pressure and just let the stones do the work they were designed for.

The bonus is that the EdgePro is pretty rock steady working like this (as long as you suction it onto a non- permeable surface!!).

Just some ramblings after probably one too many glasses of wine ...... :D :D :D
Cheers Grant

Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not going to get you!!
Dieter
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Re: Useful Edge Pro Accessories

Post by Dieter »

nakneker, here is a link to the bench mount. https://www.edgeproinc.com/sharpening-a ... t-p61.html

thank you radar53. I will have to put some Shaptons on my need list. I hone straight razors on the Edge Pro, using PSA lapping film. The solid platform that the bench mount provides assures me that the angle,set using an Angle Cube, will remain dead on throughout the process. I must admit though, that 20+ years ago when I started using the Edge Pro, I probably used way too much pressure. :( Glad to be here on this informative forum. Thank you sir.
Radar53
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Re: Useful Edge Pro Accessories

Post by Radar53 »

Hi Dieter, like you I got my Apex in 1999 and just recently got the EP Professional.

I use 3M PSA films and love them, they leave a nice scratch pattern, cut aggressively with good repeatability and without leaving really deep scratches. What I have found with my different cutting media (for a given grit size) is that the Shapton Glass stones leave a very smooth finish, my Nubatama stones leave a slightly toothier finish and the 3M diamond films leave a slightly toothier finish than the Nubatamas. This applies up to about 5k, and above that I don't quite have enough tactile feel to distinguish the differences.

Depending on how far down the rabbit hole you want to get, there are a number things related to the design & use of the EdgePro, which will give slight angle variations. These can be overcome by some third party bits & pieces and changes to cutting techniques. These would mostly be minimised when sharpening straight razors IMO. There was a lot of stuff posted on the original forum if you are interested enough to go digging.

Lastly the Angle Cube. Again for most needs it's fine, but it does have plus / minus tolerances for any set angle, and errors also occur from how and where the measurements are taken. I find it a bit clumsy on the Apex and that introduces more set-up errors for me, so I use an app on my iPhone 5S, just because for me setting it up on the Apex is a bit easier and more repeatable. Even so if I am really being particular, read totally OCD, I just use either of those gadgets as a guide to get me close & then I lock it down more accurately with the Sharpie method.

Just me and YMMV
Cheers Grant

Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not going to get you!!
Dieter
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Re: Useful Edge Pro Accessories

Post by Dieter »

Thanks Radar53. I will be replacing my EP stones with Shapton glass for knives. Sounds like it is well worth the upgrade.
David_R
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Re: Useful Edge Pro Accessories

Post by David_R »

Radar53 wrote: Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:37 pmI also think that diamonds regardless, leave deeper scratches than the equivalent synthetic stone. For example my EP1200 (5k JIS grit), leaves a finer finish than my Nubatama 5k (which has a bit of tooth) and my 5k diamond tapes have slightly more tooth again. Just my experience here. I prefer to use ordinary stones 90+% of the time & only use diamonds for heavy lifting (140 grit or below) and on really hard, heavily alloyed super steels. Others use diamonds more freely
With surface mount diamonds this is true. For the EP diamond matrix stones (and other matrix or vitrified stones) the opposite is true - they leave shallower scratches. This will vary depending on how recently you have dressed the stones, but even right after dressing the EP diamond matrix stones don't leave deep scratches that have to be removed. The reason is the diamond particles are surrounded by a hard matrix, so just the tips of the diamond particles are sticking out. With diamond plates almost the entire diameter of the diamond is exposed.

The recommended way to use these EP diamond matrix stones is to do no more than 10 edge trailing strokes per 3" of blade after apexing the edge. That's all it takes to remove the scratches from the previous stone. If I want the best mirror edge I will sometime do more strokes, particularly with the 1100 grit stone. But the scratches from the previous stone disappear very quickly.

This are night and day different from surface mounted diamonds and were transformational for my sharpening, especially for the steels that are harder to sharpen. I also use diamond matrix bench stones for most of my sharpening. If I had the money, I would use diamond or CBN vitrified stones. The time and effort to get high carbide/high vanadium steel is dramatically different vs. other stones. If you're using typical kitchen steels diamond stones aren't necessary, but they're still nice. When you get into Hap40, ZDP189, and harder to sharpen steels the value becomes more apparent.

I will occasionally use my Shapton Glass stones just because I have them. Almost all my sharpening is done on diamond matrix stones. It's just faster, easier, and I get a great edge.
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