Ideas for improving my sharpening process

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Wassabi777
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Ideas for improving my sharpening process

Post by Wassabi777 »

I've been hand sharpening my knives for four years, and think I'm as good as I really ever have to be, but let me know of helpful ways to adjust what I'm doing.

1) I thin out my double-bevel knife against the shinogi line with a 500 grit stone until it is thin behind the edge. I leave it at this grit to increase non-stick

2) I thin (or create) a secondary bevel between the shinogi bevel and edge for a simple and clean convex, also leaving it at 500 grit

3) I sharpen/set the edge with a 500 grit, pushing back and forth with light pressure, my pressure being greater opposite to the direction of the edge

4) I sharpen/polish the edge with a 1000 grit, pushing back and forth with medium-light pressure, my pressure being greater opposite to the direction of the edge

5) I polish with a 6000 grit, pushing back and forth with medium pressure, my pressure being LESSER opposite to the direction of the edge(partially to avoid digging in)

6) lastly I directly push off the burr on the right side on the 6000 with a single, straight stroke, then pull it off on the left side pulling the knife straight across the stone. Then I knock the remaining burr off on my pants or jeans.

All my knives are very thin white, Aeb-l or r2 and have been easy to take the burr or residual micro burr off of. Let me know if this all made sense, thank you guys.
orezeno
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Re: Ideas for improving my sharpening process

Post by orezeno »

Here are some thoughts:
  • Are you checking the condition of the edge at each stage of the sharpening? This can be a combination of feeling the edge for burr, looking at the reflection of the edge in a strong light, and examining the scratch pattern on the bevels for consistency.
  • Do you have a standardized method of testing? I test every knife that I sharpen by cutting slowly through phonebook paper. I make certain that the edge digs in effortlessly at the heel, and cuts smoothly all the way to the tip. If the cut stops at some point, or tears the paper, your edge has a burr at that point, or the edge is not straight under the spine.
  • You might consider extra care when deburring (though those steels are extremely easy to deburr). Perhaps add gentle stropping on a cowhide, or horsehide strop loaded with a diamond or CBN emulsion. This will add about a minute to your routine but could significantly improve your results.
Greg
Wassabi777
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Re: Ideas for improving my sharpening process

Post by Wassabi777 »

1) I feel for the burr, and also go by feel on the stones. I also look closely for a consistent profile a few times while on a 500. I test after my progression or de-burr after 500 to check for consistency.

I'll def try the light method. The scratch pattern might be hard to observe as my actual edge is very small, but I don't know til I try.

2. I test on paper

3. I do have a strip but stopped stropping because I was a) losing my apex and dulling my knife b) trying to do almost no stropping to keep my 1000 grit teeth c) trying to keep my routine & edge simple and not refined past 6000

I'm sure it's worth while to experiment again, how do you strop your knives?

Thank you very much for your time.
jmcnelly85
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Re: Ideas for improving my sharpening process

Post by jmcnelly85 »

One area that’s helped me is to be mindful of burr removal on every stone in my progression. If I’m starting on a coarse grit stone, I don’t jump to my medium grit stone until I’ve maxed out my coarse edge. A clean, burr free coarse edge can be a thing of beauty, and achieving one early will help get better edges on my medium and finer stones. While still on the coarse stone, I’ll alternate passes with minimal pressure to abrade as much burr as I can as early as possible.

I try not to raise much, if any burr, but when I do, I don’t leave whatever stone I’m on until it’s gone.

Aside from that, I’ll say don’t give up on strops. I’ve felt differently about strops throughout my sharpening journey ranging from love to hate to indifference. Stropping without rounding an apex can eventually give you even more teeth. Keep playing around and you’ll find some tricks that work for you.
cliff
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Re: Ideas for improving my sharpening process

Post by cliff »

Do people strop on a course stone, or simply alternate passes with decreasing pressure? I tend to use a couple of light stropping strokes, but the discussion raises the question of whether or not that is just creating a new burr.
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Re: Ideas for improving my sharpening process

Post by branwell »

cliff wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 9:22 am Do people strop on a course stone, or simply alternate passes with decreasing pressure? I tend to use a couple of light stropping strokes, but the discussion raises the question of whether or not that is just creating a new burr.
I have the best success for keen durable edges by finishing with edge leading strokes on hard high grit stones like the Shapton Glass 16k. Also works well on hard naturals.
cliff
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Re: Ideas for improving my sharpening process

Post by cliff »

branwell wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 4:43 pm I have the best success for keen durable edges by finishing with edge leading strokes on hard high grit stones like the Shapton Glass 16k. Also works well on hard naturals.
At what point in the progression do you start stropping or using deburring strokes on stones? Only at the end, or earlier?
orezeno
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Re: Ideas for improving my sharpening process

Post by orezeno »

Wassabi777 wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 9:08 pm 3. I do have a strip but stopped stropping because I was a) losing my apex and dulling my knife b) trying to do almost no stropping to keep my 1000 grit teeth c) trying to keep my routine & edge simple and not refined past 6000
I think that if you are dulling a 1K edge by stropping it, there's a technique problem that is, perhaps, worth investigating. If you load your strop with 1 micron diamond paste, and use good technique, the amount of change that 1 micron abrasive will do to an edge created with a 15-ish micron abrasive 1K stone is miniscule.
I'm sure it's worth while to experiment again, how do you strop your knives?
I think of stropping as an abrasive step that is used to further refine the bevel surfaces that come together to create the edge. I have strops that are mounted to a horizontal flat surface (wood, glass, magnetized to steel-plate). I use them in a similar configuration to my sharpening stones; same height off the bench, same orientation, same lighting. For stropping, I use light, edge trailing strokes concentrating on staying ever so slightly off of the edge that I just created. Before I use a strop, I deburr the knife on whatever stone represents the end of my stone progression. Often I will test at this point to ensure that the edge is clean and uniform from heel to tip.

Over many years, my mindset for a sharpening progression has been to do all the bevel setting/shaping on coarse stones, and only refine for the rest of the progression. (I use a "progression", typically, when the knife starts out dull.) I want everything to be "right" when the knife comes off of the coarsest stone (typically a 320, but sometimes coarser). I always deburr on this stone and test. (And, yes, some steels are a b1tch to deburr.) The knife should be screamin' sharp off of this stone. The rest of the progression simply refines the bevel geometry established by the first stone.
Greg
Radar53
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Re: Ideas for improving my sharpening process

Post by Radar53 »

Very good advice from Mr jmc and Greg and at the risk of repeating / summarising, here’s a bit of detail about what I do. Pretty much everyone adapts the basic process to something that works for them.

When setting new bevels and also sharpening existing bevels, most of the work you do needs to be done on the coarsest stone you choose to start with. This is where the edge is created and set up before starting ongoing refinement. Once deburred off this coarsest stone you should be able to easily cut newsprint and as you get better even cut arm hair.

Like most people, I use “scrubbing” type strokes, alternating sides as appropriate and first up, on the coarsest stone I’ve chosen, I’m using enough pressure to get a consistent, full length burr. Once that burr is established, it’s a matter of step & repeat, with decreasing pressure to remove that burr to the point where the pressure is as light as you can possibly go and the burr is minimised. For this I use edge-leading strokes & I know most others use edge-trailing.

As a final step, before moving onto the next stone in my progression, I introduce a lateral component into my stroke (again edge-leading) and a single stroke per side. So a “sweeping” style, traversing the full edge from heel to tip. I use very gentle use micro scrubbing stokes (0.5mm or less) to find where the edge bites, back off a miniscule and make the sweep with almost zero pressure. I repeat the side-to-side sweeps until I’m happy with the edge.

From here I move onto the next stone in my progression and step & repeat until I get to the last stone I’ve chosen. Once I’ve completed that I generally strop (edge trailing stokes) on newsprint. If it’s a refined edge (say 8k & above) I will go onto various bare leathers. Again it’s the use of very gentle use micro scrubbing stokes (0.5mm or less) to find where the edge bites, back off a miniscule and make the sweep with varying pressures down to almost zero.

HTH & YMMV
Cheers Grant

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Pat Y
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Re: Ideas for improving my sharpening process

Post by Pat Y »

For a newb sharpener like myself I love this type of thread. So much knowledge shared.
Wassabi777
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Re: Ideas for improving my sharpening process

Post by Wassabi777 »

Thank you for all the feedback guys, I'll be sure to try out these things and put them into practice.
FisherMAn1298
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Re: Ideas for improving my sharpening process

Post by FisherMAn1298 »

Welcome Pat Y! Always good to see more people join this amazing forum. Please post often, comments always welcome and appreciated.
As for stropping, I strop one or two strokes per side at the end of each stone progression, and after the first stone try not to create a burr at all if possible, paying close attention to the stone, edge, feedback from process, finally after last stone stropping 5-10 strokes on nanocloth with .1 pdp emulsion b Ken Schwartz.
In the immortal words of Ken Schwartz-"Master The 1K."
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Re: Ideas for improving my sharpening process

Post by branwell »

cliff wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 5:04 pm
branwell wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 4:43 pm I have the best success for keen durable edges by finishing with edge leading strokes on hard high grit stones like the Shapton Glass 16k. Also works well on hard naturals.
At what point in the progression do you start stropping or using deburring strokes on stones? Only at the end, or earlier?

Earlier. I deburr on each stone using a few light edge leading strokes and a couple pulls through wood. Its important not to over do it on the edge leading on lower grit stones as once the burr is gone, it will micro chip the edge dulling it.

The website https://scienceofsharp.com/ has a lot of info and SEM images of edges with various techniques and stones.
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Re: Ideas for improving my sharpening process

Post by cliff »

Thanks. I've been doing this with edge trailing, but same idea
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Re: Ideas for improving my sharpening process

Post by Jeff B »

When I started deburring with edge leading strokes I found deburring easier and a marked improvement in my edges.
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Re: Ideas for improving my sharpening process

Post by Mowgface »

+1 to edge leading. Or lateral strokes if the burr is especially tenacious
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