Best stones for a dark kasumi finish

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Mitch5
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Best stones for a dark kasumi finish

Post by Mitch5 »

I recently got more into natural stones and single bevel knives. I have a few natural stones, and they all create a good looking kasumi finish, but I’m looking to create a dark kasumi finish like on these knives. I saw cktg had a Takashima that they said Konosuke used to prepare the final finish for the kaiju. I’ve been looking into them, but I’m still unsure. What are the best stones for creating a dark kasumi? Or is there some other process that is used to darken the finish?
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taz575
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Re: Best stones for a dark kasumi finish

Post by taz575 »

Different stones will react differently to different steels, so there isn't a simple answer unfortunately. I have played around with finger stones (Hazuya and Jizuya) on some knives I have, but haven't had the best results. It takes a lot of time and practice to get good results.

There are some stones that give a nice dark kasumi (I think the King 800 or 1000 being one of them?), but they are a lower grit. Also, any imperfections in the steel grind will show up, so softer/muddier stones are preferred as they help with this. Doing a kasumi finish on a blade road is the same as doing the entire blade, just over a larger area, so I would look for posts about kasumi finishes and see what stones people recommend for different steels. The initial prep work is fairly consuming though to get the blade ready for this kind of finish.
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Altadan
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Re: Best stones for a dark kasumi finish

Post by Altadan »

Usually you want to create "finger stones" (you can YouTube that ;-) )

The most best known one (though not the only one) is the Uchigumori

I've dabbled with some naguras I found on Etsy from a shaving shop in belgium, broke off some pieces, and got rather dark results when enough mud was used. It's a patient slow process, but feels very rewarding :)
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Re: Best stones for a dark kasumi finish

Post by Tostadas »

The king 800 produces a pretty dark contrast, but it also has more drag than I'd like for a finish. I'd follow it up with something a bit finer.
Radar53
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Re: Best stones for a dark kasumi finish

Post by Radar53 »

Interesting subject this and one that I have been pottering with for a couple of years or so.

For me I'm looking for a couple of things in a "Kasumi" finish. Disclaimer; I'm not suggesting that this is the way Kasumi has to be, just that this is where my journey is taking me. The two things I'm looking for are a colour contrast and some texture eg similar to a bead blasted surface, as well.

So I've experimented with a number of stones (including 3 Japanese natural [JN] stones) and different approaches. Also technique comes into it and at this stage I think that my technique is still pretty much rubbish. For one thing I really struggled in the beginning to get anything like a crisp shinogi line. That's improving, but still needs more attention.

Just to address the OP's question the two best stones I've found that leave a good dark finish are the Uchigomori mentioned above and the Kohetsu 2k. Obviously different steels, foods cut etc seem to produce different outcomes.

To put the two sides of my thinking ~ on the one hand I have done all sorts of different, but fairly full progressions (including just synthetics and also synthetics to 3k then JN's to 8k or synthetics to 8k followed by an 8k JN and then the Uchigomori). This gives a very smooth finish and as noted in an earlier post above the Uchigomori leaves a reasonably dark colour. Looks good, has good colour & contrast, but seems flat as it doesn't have any texture.

The second approach I have been playing with is not doing a full progression. The best results so far came from finishing on the Kohetsu 2k. Good dark finish and obviously with a 2k finish some texture as well. The niggle here for me is that the blade road shows up the the 2k grind lines. Obviously I've played around with stopping at other grit sizes.

I've also tried "seeding" say my 3k, 6k & 8k synthetic stones that gives an intermediate effect.

Latterly, I have been trying a low grit ~ high grit approach. I got some good results going from SG500 straight to the Uchigomori. It seems that the Uchi grinds the sharp tops of the grind marks a bit flat and obviously creates a dark effect. So colour plus texture. But again you can still see the grind lines. Again I've tried this approach stopping at 1k, 2k & 3k and then going to the Uchi.

Best overall result for colour & texture so far (purely from my perspective) seems to be SG500, Nubatama Platinum 1k (hard), Kohetsu 2k & finally the Uchigomori (approx 8k??).

I'd be keen to understand what others are doing to learn more.
Cheers Grant

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Re: Best stones for a dark kasumi finish

Post by ken123 »

I've had good lunch with the 2k, 3k and 15k bamboo stones both separately and in sequence. These are not cheap stones, but they usually work well for this task. You also don't necessarily aim for high contrast.
But more of a black haze or kurobikari finish.
Some other stones of use here are the 180 Nubatama. Another choice is the Hakka tomae. Pricey as a full sized stone (>$1k) but I do have some Fingerstones pieces.

Ken
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Re: Best stones for a dark kasumi finish

Post by Radar53 »

ken123 wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 7:22 am I've had good lunch with the 2k, 3k and 15k bamboo stones both separately and in sequence. These are not cheap stones, but they usually work well for this task. You also don't necessarily aim for high contrast.
But more of a black haze or kurobikari finish.
Some other stones of use here are the 180 Nubatama. Another choice is the Hakka tomae. Pricey as a full sized stone (>$1k) but I do have some Fingerstones pieces.
Ken
Thanks Ken & yes I agree with the Nubatama Bamboo options. I had forgotten that ages back I worked on a Yauji Petty 120mm, true single bevel ni-san with w#2 on the LH edge with damascus clad steel on the RHS. The final two stones I used were EdgePro sized Nub 5k & Nub10k both (bamboo) and I got great results. Surprisingly good contrast and also some subtle texture. I haven't ventured to use these on a 210 or 240 sized gyuto, but will now go back and play further :D :roll: 8-)
Cheers Grant

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Mitch5
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Re: Best stones for a dark kasumi finish

Post by Mitch5 »

Thanks for the advice everyone, I currently have an Amakusa, Maruoyama Shirosuita, Maruoyama Shikiuchigumori, and some cheap Shirosuita finger stones. I can get a nice kasumi with all of these, however not as dark of finish as I am looking for. Depending on what I use the knife for, the patina gives me the perfect look, so I might try some type of forced patina with vinegar. But on the other hand I’m happy with the finish I get with the stones since the patina is going to change the color anyway.
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