Covid vaccine today

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gladius
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Re: Covid vaccine today

Post by gladius »

Bensbites wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:47 am Can you provide your sources? Real info please, not random bloggers.
---
Sources of information that led to my decision? Sure...but "Real info please" - how the question is framed I hope is not a bait leading to disputations. The responses to posting my decision to decline the jab are already charged. Everyone must come to their own conclusions and respect those of others. If your question is sincere, I will answer you why I am declining with links.

My decision is not carefree, glib, nor based on political dissent and is based on available info. from search (links below).

What led to my decision is basically three-fold:

1) these shots are an experimental trial with adverse and even fatal reactions which I decline to participate in (not worth the risks) and
2) I decline also based on moral and ethical reasons
3) Survivability is good IF I were to get the virus

-the shots are classified as experimental, not FDA approved and not proven to work and in trial for two years and allowed under EUA.
ref. https://tinyurl.com/yh9yodtf

-Have caused serious injuries and death: multiple nations have halted the jab due to blood clotting issues.
ref. https://tinyurl.com/yduqpgux

-The use of fetal cells in vaccines is well know:
https://tinyurl.com/yz78juz8

-Survivability of Covid-19 is very high (numbers are varied): Numbers reported (see search link) between 99.995% to 82% depending on age and other factors (co-morbidities) but is near impossible to determine exactly, it's a moving target and the initial modeling was way off, testing was flawed, many false positives, reclassification of deaths, etc. https://tinyurl.com/yj8lhruz

I figured I'd do what I can to strengthen my immunity: Vitamin D, C and Zinc, etc. which in my mind is less risk.
kibbles
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Re: Covid vaccine today

Post by kibbles »

I'm not going to address all that - I just don't have the time. What I will address is the "risk" of taking the vaccine.

https://www.fda.gov/media/142749/download

Notice this quote from the justifications for EUA for a vaccine (and let's be clear that there are multiple vaccines out there that don't function the same way, so lumping them all together is not a good idea).

"The known and potential benefits of the product, when used to diagnose, prevent, or treat the identified serious or life-threatening disease or condition, outweigh the known and potential risks of the product."

Straight from the horse's mouth.
Bensbites
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Re: Covid vaccine today

Post by Bensbites »

gladius wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 5:15 pm
Bensbites wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:47 am Can you provide your sources? Real info please, not random bloggers.
---
Sources of information that led to my decision? Sure...but "Real info please" - how the question is framed I hope is not a bait leading to disputations. The responses to posting my decision to decline the jab are already charged. Everyone must come to their own conclusions and respect those of others. If your question is sincere, I will answer you why I am declining with links.

My decision is not carefree, glib, nor based on political dissent and is based on available info. from search (links below).

What led to my decision is basically three-fold:

1) these shots are an experimental trial with adverse and even fatal reactions which I decline to participate in (not worth the risks) and
2) I decline also based on moral and ethical reasons
3) Survivability is good IF I were to get the virus

-the shots are classified as experimental, not FDA approved and not proven to work and in trial for two years and allowed under EUA.
ref. https://tinyurl.com/yh9yodtf

-Have caused serious injuries and death: multiple nations have halted the jab due to blood clotting issues.
ref. https://tinyurl.com/yduqpgux

-The use of fetal cells in vaccines is well know:
https://tinyurl.com/yz78juz8

-Survivability of Covid-19 is very high (numbers are varied): Numbers reported (see search link) between 99.995% to 82% depending on age and other factors (co-morbidities) but is near impossible to determine exactly, it's a moving target and the initial modeling was way off, testing was flawed, many false positives, reclassification of deaths, etc. https://tinyurl.com/yj8lhruz

I figured I'd do what I can to strengthen my immunity: Vitamin D, C and Zinc, etc. which in my mind is less risk.
I am sorry if my tone was off, I am frustrated by the amount of misinformation out there.

1) yes you can survive Covid.

2) yes the vaccine are authorized under emergency use.

3) the AZ vaccine with blood clod side effects is not available in the US. Not an issue.

4) from the North Dakota Dept of Public health

https://www.health.nd.gov/sites/www/fil ... andout.pdf

The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines were found to be ethically uncontroversial by the pro-life
policy organization the Charlotte Lozier Institute. Further, the Secretariat of Pro-Life Activities, a
committee within the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, has stated: “neither Pfizer
nor Moderna used an abortion-derived cell line in the development or production of the
vaccine. However, such a cell line was used to test the efficacy of both vaccines. Thus, while
neither vaccine is completely free from any use of abortion-derived cell lines, in these two cases
the use is very remote from the initial evil of the abortion...one may receive any of the clinically
recommended vaccines in good conscience with the assurance that reception of such vaccines
does not involve immoral cooperation in abortion.”
Was the Johnson & Johnson (Janssen Pharmaceuticals) COVID-19
vaccine developed using fetal cell lines?
The non-replicating viral vector vaccine produced by Johnson & Johnson did require the use of fetal cell cultures, specifically PER.C6, in order to produce and manufacture the vaccine. The Catholic Church and the Southern Baptist Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission have both stated that receiving a COVID-19 vaccine that required fetal cell lines for production or manufacture is morally acceptable.

Basically the Catholic Church and various pro life groups agree is ok to be vaccinated.


These vaccines do not contain aborted tissue, but a cell line from the 80’s originally derived from a fetus
gastro gnome
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Re: Covid vaccine today

Post by gastro gnome »

I suspect no one here is likely going to change their opinion about the vaccine based on this discussion.

I think risk of disinformation is real and lives and livelihoods are at stake. So in that spirit, it seems reasonable to ask someone who shares information to provide more explanation or cite their sources. Then what? An endless exchange of different sources that support different people's views? Obviously, it could go in many directions.

I'm not sure if I know what this thread is about (or any thread really). For a bit it was about people who had gotten the vaccine and who shared their experience. Then it took a turn when a poster said they choose not to get the vaccine and people reacted to that. Just one man's opinion: those are probably two different conversations that will just get in the way of one another.
gladius
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Re: Covid vaccine today

Post by gladius »

Bensbites wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 5:35 pm RE: Basically the Catholic Church and various pro life groups agree is ok to be vaccinated.

These vaccines do not contain aborted tissue, but a cell line from the 80’s originally derived from a fetus
While that may be true, “Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.” We need to have a clear conscience.
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Re: Covid vaccine today

Post by mauichef »

gladius wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:28 pm
Bensbites wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 5:35 pm RE: Basically the Catholic Church and various pro life groups agree is ok to be vaccinated.

These vaccines do not contain aborted tissue, but a cell line from the 80’s originally derived from a fetus
While that may be true, “Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.” We need to have a clear conscience.
Doesn’t having a clear conscience include Not spreading untruths and falsely accusing others of deeds not proven or factual? You just conceded the aborted tissue issue is not true yet you continue to claim it is a fact. I’m confused by your actions and words.
delmar
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Re: Covid vaccine today

Post by delmar »

This thread has gone down eerily similar to another Covid thread many months back, with eerily similar 'support' for certain propositions that were bunk, with eerily similar participants.

Let's just all agree that this thread was started so that people could comment on their covid vaccination experiences? If we can, we can extricate the superfluous fluff and get back to cooking. If you didn't get a vaccine, well then you have no personal experience and should bow out.

Best to all; be safe; be kind; be gracious.

I'll start back up again:
Wife, me, daughter (17 yo) all have Pfizer, all had dose 2. Wife, healthy and resilient as they come, started reacting to dose #2 about 24 hrs after, low fever, sweats and malaise. Ok next morning. Daughter had some arm pain, a bit fatigued from 24-48 hours. I, the least healthy of the 3, felt a bit 'low' the day after, but no issues. I got in my non-dominant arm, but then swung the splitting axe for an hour chopping wood and felt fine after.

My 35 yo step daughter had Moderna #2 and had a 101.5-102 fever for 3 days and was laid up in bed.

My parents, both in late 70s, had Moderna and zero issues.

Kinda no rhyme or reason.
d_rap
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Re: Covid vaccine today

Post by d_rap »

Thanks Delmar...

Wife was fully vaccinated by early-February since she's an occupational therapist working with babies and their families, now more in-person than before, thanks to her immunization. She had Moderna and had no side effects at all. As a high school teacher in LA County, I became eligible on March 1, and I had my second Moderna shot last Tuesday. I had some chills the first night (camping in the warm low desert, so I knew it was a reaction) but otherwise I've been fine.

I teach in LA, and our union agreement is that we go back in-person this month after we are fully vaccinated (or had access) and have had two weeks after our last vaccine to reach full immunity. And as long as we stay out of the purple tier I'll be back and feeling fairly safe at my school on April 26. Hopefully the vaccine helps us get it dialed as a society to where the virus, and its new variants, are stopped in their tracks.
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delmar
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Re: Covid vaccine today

Post by delmar »

Drap, I feel ya. My wife is a HS counselor in SD Co., just south of you. It is a tough road for educators - balancing expectations of families, expectations of school districts and personal boundaries. Unions are helpful, but often leave a half empty/half full bag.

Thank you for what you do as an educator. And best of health and luck to you and all those you hold dear.
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Re: Covid vaccine today

Post by Bensbites »

gastro gnome wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 5:51 pm
I think risk of disinformation is real and lives and livelihoods are at stake. So in that spirit, it seems reasonable to ask someone who shares information to provide more explanation or cite their sources. Then what? An endless exchange of different sources that support different people's views? Obviously, it could go in many directions.
Thank you for being more eloquent than I at why I felt the need to respond. I didn’t mean to insult anyone or turn this thread into an angry place. On both sides of many issues there is too much disinformation and not enough fact checking / critical thinking. I have an issue with disinformation, it hits a big nerve.
Robstreperous
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Re: Covid vaccine today

Post by Robstreperous »

gladius wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:28 pm
Bensbites wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 5:35 pm RE: Basically the Catholic Church and various pro life groups agree is ok to be vaccinated.

These vaccines do not contain aborted tissue, but a cell line from the 80’s originally derived from a fetus
While that may be true, “Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.” We need to have a clear conscience.
Hi @Gladius. I want you to know I enjoy reading your posts on knives, I respect your advice and knoweldge and even though this might be awkward I hope nothing I'm about to write will change that.

Sometimes having a clear conscience means speaking up even when the topic's unpleasant. So I'm glad you feel free to speak your mind just as I'm about to. Keeping my conscience clear obligates me to respond.... whereas ordinarily controversy like this is something I'd try to avoid.

For my family and me this is a very simple choice. We believe we have a choice whether to take care of others as we would take care of ourselves or whether to decline what we see as our communal responsibilities to each other.

When weighing any perceived risks we find the balance to be as follows:

Were we to decline to become inoculated and pass it on... to anyone who didn't survive it would be unforgivable. Were we to catch it and pass it on to someone who suffered as many do even if they were to survive to us this would be unforgivable. Were we to pass it on to someone who needed significant care from others the burden we placed on them and those for whom they care to us it would be unforgivable. We believe our responsibilities to others outstrips any risk to ourselves in this case.

We see ourselves as responsible for the burdens our choices place on others and we do our best, in our own flawed and unworthy way, to act in a worthy manner. We see ourselves as responsible for treating others the way we would wish to be treated ourselves and we try to act that way.

We're glad to have acted as we did and we thank anyone else who has done the same.

Thank you for your post @Gladius. I have no wish to try to change your mind and you shouldn't feel obligated to respond as I have no doubt you've made your own carefully considered choices. For my part I will write no further on this topic beyond the following.

I'm glad you have the opportunity to speak your conscience just as I appreciate the same opportunity I've taken.

For anyone else who's read this far thank you for your attention and thank you for considering my family, my friends and the people who support us as you make your own very personal decisions.
cliff
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Re: Covid vaccine today

Post by cliff »

Had Pfizer no. 2 on Friday. After dose one, I had a sore arm and general aches for about a day. After dose two, sore arm, low-grade fever, general malaise for a day or two. I'm glad to have have had good uptake and am eagerly awaiting the protection that comes with it.

I'm increasingly alarmed by the news of B117 infecting kids, spreading twice as readily as the seed strain, and all the destruction that is bringing with it.
JASinIL2006
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Re: Covid vaccine today

Post by JASinIL2006 »

cliff wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:43 am Had Pfizer no. 2 on Friday. After dose one, I had a sore arm and general aches for about a day. After dose two, sore arm, low-grade fever, general malaise for a day or two. I'm glad to have have had good uptake and am eagerly awaiting the protection that comes with it.

I'm increasingly alarmed by the news of B117 infecting kids, spreading twice as readily as the seed strain, and all the destruction that is bringing with it.
As someone who works in a university, this really concerns me, too. We desperately want to return to full in-person instruction, but if sizable numbers of students (or faculty) refuse to get vaccinated, the risks to everyone is simply too high. Remember, even among people who are vaccinated, 10% or more (depending on the vaccine) could still get sick upon exposure. Granted, vaccinated individuals probably would not have symptoms as severe as a non-vaccinated person, but they still could get sick and they still could pass the virus on to others.

These particular vaccines may have been approved under the experimental use authorization, but keep in mind that vaccines against coronvirus have been in the works since the SARS outbreak several years ago; this is not some sort of brand new, untested, unknown type of vaccine. (In part, that's why it was able to be produced so quickly.)
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Re: Covid vaccine today

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Sue's now got a shot. Back to the shipping station, she goes. :)
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cliff
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Re: Covid vaccine today

Post by cliff »

JASinIL2006 wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:25 am
cliff wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:43 am Had Pfizer no. 2 on Friday. After dose one, I had a sore arm and general aches for about a day. After dose two, sore arm, low-grade fever, general malaise for a day or two. I'm glad to have have had good uptake and am eagerly awaiting the protection that comes with it.

I'm increasingly alarmed by the news of B117 infecting kids, spreading twice as readily as the seed strain, and all the destruction that is bringing with it.
As someone who works in a university, this really concerns me, too. We desperately want to return to full in-person instruction, but if sizable numbers of students (or faculty) refuse to get vaccinated, the risks to everyone is simply too high. Remember, even among people who are vaccinated, 10% or more (depending on the vaccine) could still get sick upon exposure. Granted, vaccinated individuals probably would not have symptoms as severe as a non-vaccinated person, but they still could get sick and they still could pass the virus on to others.

These particular vaccines may have been approved under the experimental use authorization, but keep in mind that vaccines against coronvirus have been in the works since the SARS outbreak several years ago; this is not some sort of brand new, untested, unknown type of vaccine. (In part, that's why it was able to be produced so quickly.)
I work in a university also, and this is exactly my concern. Cornell and Rutgers have moved to mandate vaccines for in-person learning. It's a tricky issue, but, because or the risks to everyone, I tend to agree.

SARS-1 emerged nearly twenty years ago (2003). It was working on SARS-1 that scientists started working to target the spike protein. Viral vector vaccines have been studied since the 1970s and were used for the Ebola vaccine. The mRNA technology is new, never before approved for vaccines. But it has been in development for thirty years and studied in clinical trials for other vaccines (e.g. flu, Zika, rabies) and cancer treatments for awhile. Yes, these vaccines are new, but scientists have been working towards them for a long time. All this just to agree with the last part.
gladius
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Re: Covid vaccine today

Post by gladius »

JASinIL2006 wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:25 am These particular vaccines may have been approved under the experimental use authorization, but keep in mind that vaccines against coronvirus have been in the works since the SARS outbreak several years ago; this is not some sort of brand new, untested, unknown type of vaccine. (In part, that's why it was able to be produced so quickly.)
---
As I understand it, these mRNA shots have NEVER been used on humans. They have failed the safety trials on animals. That is why doctors world-wide are alarmed and taking a stand against them. Big pharma is discrediting, threatening license loss and silencing these healthcare workers who are concerned and speaking up. Huge profits are involved here.

Doctors around the world alarmed. <<

Dr Tenpenny discusses how the mRNA shots work here. <<
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Re: Covid vaccine today

Post by JASinIL2006 »

gladius wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:03 pm
JASinIL2006 wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:25 am These particular vaccines may have been approved under the experimental use authorization, but keep in mind that vaccines against coronvirus have been in the works since the SARS outbreak several years ago; this is not some sort of brand new, untested, unknown type of vaccine. (In part, that's why it was able to be produced so quickly.)
---
As I understand it, these mRNA shots have NEVER been used on humans. They have failed the safety trials on animals. That is why doctors world-wide are alarmed and taking a stand against them. Big pharma is discrediting, threatening license loss and silencing these healthcare workers who are concerned and speaking up. Huge profits are involved here.

Doctors around the world alarmed. <<

Dr Tenpenny discusses how the mRNA shots work here. <<
I'm sorry, but neither of the links you shared on from credible sites. Media Bias/Fact Check lists both as low or very low in credibility. Here is the dashboard for Brighteon, the second of your links:
Image[/img]
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gladius
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Re: Covid vaccine today

Post by gladius »

JASinIL2006 wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:21 pm I'm sorry, but neither of the links you shared on from credible sites. Media Bias/Fact Check lists both as low or very low in credibility. Here is the dashboard for Brighteon, the second of your links:
Image[/img]
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Of course, I would expect no less. This the discrediting and silencing in action.
Last edited by gladius on Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Covid vaccine today

Post by kibbles »

I was just about to post the same thing. Those are not reputable sites. They have no interest in actual science and great interest in disseminating misinformation and outright lies.
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Re: Covid vaccine today

Post by cliff »

gladius wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:27 pm
JASinIL2006 wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:21 pm I'm sorry, but neither of the links you shared on from credible sites. Media Bias/Fact Check lists both as low or very low in credibility. Here is the dashboard for Brighteon, the second of your links:
Image[/img]
---
Of course, I would expect no less. This the discrediting and silencing in action.
It is not silencing to point out that the information is false. While it is true to say that mRNA vaccines have not been approved by the FDA before, it is not true to say that they have never been tested in humans before.

The CDC spells it out clearly here -- https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/h ... %20decade..
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