Gyuto recommendation for a friend

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Gyuto recommendation for a friend

Post by ChefKnivesToGo »

Hi Mark,



Hope you are doing well in these turbulent times. I am back on the market looking for a few knives. This time it’s not for me, but for a friend. He wants to start with 3 knives: gyuto, petty, and paring and later add a deba and sujihiki. As I already have some experience with Japanese knives I am happy to help Gleb to select the most suitable knives. I would also recommend for him to buy an Edge-Pro system as he has no sharpening skills yet.



But let's start with Gyuto. For Gyuto I narrow my choice to the following names:

Kaneshiro AS Gyuto 240mm (chefknivestogo.com)

Kurosaki AS Gyuto 240mm (chefknivestogo.com)

Shibata Kotetsu AS Gyuto 240mm (chefknivestogo.com)



They are all the same steel and price range, but as I did not try any of it, I would need your advice and recommendation. Could you please advise which one shall I go for?



What do you think about the following knife from the same knife-makers but in R2/SG2 steel? Is it better steel and does it worth paying some extra money and going for one of these knives? Is it more difficult to sharpen R2 than AS ? is R2/SG2 more brittle and prone to chipping?

Shibata Kotetsu R-2 Gyuto 240mm (chefknivestogo.com)

Kurosaki Senko SG2 Gyuto 240mm (chefknivestogo.com)


Thanks and regards,


Alex
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Re: Gyuto recommendation for a friend

Post by ChefKnivesToGo »

Hi Alex,

I tend to recommend good stainless steel over carbon steel for friends and family. You don't want them to get it rusty and get upset.

Try the Kurosaki Senko. It's an excellent knife. All of these are made by the same extended work family so you won't go wrong with any of them.
https://www.chefknivestogo.com/kusesg2gy24.html
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Re: Gyuto recommendation for a friend

Post by taz575 »

I have a Tanaka R2 and it's a great blade! Takes a wicked edge and holds it for a long time, longer than my AS blades. Plus it's stainless, which is nice for people if they aren't used to carbon as Mark said. Another option may be the Kohetsu HAP40, semi stainless (it will darken a bit, but not patina like a carbon steel would). Awesome edge holding on that steel, too. With the Edge Pro, it will just take a bit longer to sharpen, but won't need sharpening as much. Maybe get some strops/compounds since those will prolong the time between stone sharpenings?
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Re: Gyuto recommendation for a friend

Post by AlexZin »

Thank you Mark and thank you very much Taz575 for your input.

I checked Kohetsu HAP40 and I really like that knife. I have Konosuke HD 240 and I like it very much. And Kohetsu weight and profile looks a bit similar to Kone (IMO). Whats the difference between these two Kohetsus:
https://www.chefknivestogo.com/kohawagy24.html (Kohetsu HAP40 Gyuto 240mm - $229)
https://www.chefknivestogo.com/kohagy241.html (Kohetsu HAP40 Togatta Gyuto 240mm - $249)

thanks, Alex
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Re: Gyuto recommendation for a friend

Post by JASinIL2006 »

ChefKnivesToGo wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 9:57 am Hi Alex,

I tend to recommend good stainless steel over carbon steel for friends and family. You don't want them to get it rusty and get upset.

Try the Kurosaki Senko. It's an excellent knife. All of these are made by the same extended work family so you won't go wrong with any of them.
https://www.chefknivestogo.com/kusesg2gy24.html
That is gorgeous knife and the grinds on Kurosaki blades are great. Excellent recommendation!
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Re: Gyuto recommendation for a friend

Post by Infrared »

Whats the difference between these two Kohetsus:
https://www.chefknivestogo.com/kohawagy24.html (Kohetsu HAP40 Gyuto 240mm - $229)
https://www.chefknivestogo.com/kohagy241.html (Kohetsu HAP40 Togatta Gyuto 240mm - $249)
The Togatta has a more pointed tip.
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Re: Gyuto recommendation for a friend

Post by AlexZin »

Infrared wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 3:29 pm
Whats the difference between these two Kohetsus:
https://www.chefknivestogo.com/kohawagy24.html (Kohetsu HAP40 Gyuto 240mm - $229)
https://www.chefknivestogo.com/kohagy241.html (Kohetsu HAP40 Togatta Gyuto 240mm - $249)
The Togatta has a more pointed tip.
Thanks, pointed tip is it an advantage? Which one of these two would you recommend ?
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Re: Gyuto recommendation for a friend

Post by Robstreperous »

Hello Alex. How good are your friend's knife skills?

Looking at your original list the Shibata Kotetsu is one of if not the best lasers around. The joke that goes around about it is you don't need to work. Just wave it infront of an onion and it dices itself. That said I wouldn't want to chop with it regularly (it's very light) and you probably want to keep it away from things like nuts and hard cheese.

As far as your question about R2 vs AS this might be the one time I recommend AS over R2. Personally I love R2 and I have no difficulty sharpening it and it holds its edge really well for me. But.... I have the right stones and strops and I've spent some time learning how to create an acceptable edge.

Since your friend will be learning on an Edgepro and will be experimenting with what works in the beginning I'd opt for the AS --- even on an Edgepro I feel it will give them slightly better feedback and be slightly more forgiving.

Additionally, even though it's one of my all time favorite knives I wouldn't try to learn how to sharpen using a Kotetsu on an Edgepro. The Kotetsu has a thin blade that requires a bit more finesse when it's being honed than other, more forgiving knives.
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Re: Gyuto recommendation for a friend

Post by Infrared »

AlexZin wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 3:38 pm Thanks, pointed tip is it an advantage? Which one of these two would you recommend ?
It's more of an aesthetic thing than anything else, although it's going to be more delicate. I personally would go with the Togatta because i prefer a flatter profile.
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Re: Gyuto recommendation for a friend

Post by AlexZin »

Robstreperous wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 3:51 pm Hello Alex. How good are your friend's knife skills?

Looking at your original list the Shibata Kotetsu is one of if not the best lasers around. The joke that goes around about it is you don't need to work. Just wave it infront of an onion and it dices itself. That said I wouldn't want to chop with it regularly (it's very light) and you probably want to keep it away from things like nuts and hard cheese.

As far as your question about R2 vs AS this might be the one time I recommend AS over R2. Personally I love R2 and I have no difficulty sharpening it and it holds its edge really well for me. But.... I have the right stones and strops and I've spent some time learning how to create an acceptable edge.

Since your friend will be learning on an Edgepro and will be experimenting with what works in the beginning I'd opt for the AS --- even on an Edgepro I feel it will give them slightly better feedback and be slightly more forgiving.

Additionally, even though it's one of my all time favorite knives I wouldn't try to learn how to sharpen using a Kotetsu on an Edgepro. The Kotetsu has a thin blade that requires a bit more finesse when it's being honed than other, more forgiving knives.
Thank you so much. I believe the knife skills of my friend are average. It will be his first Japanese chef knife.
Mark has the following knives in stock: Kurosaki Senko SG2 and Kohetsu HAP40 - which one of these two will you recommend ?

I agree that sharpening AS is easier and faster than SG2 and HAP40. Even on an EdgePro. And eventually it was one of the main reasons I selected for my friend Kanehiro AS and Kurosaki AS. Unfortunately non of these two knives are currently in stock. But assuming my friend is not in hurry and can wait, which one would you ultimately recommend ?
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Re: Gyuto recommendation for a friend

Post by taz575 »

If you can swing the $$$, the Kurosaki Senko is an awesome blade! The Kohetsu HAP40 is a great bang for the buck if you want extreme edge holding.

I used to recommend the Richmond AS Laser series all of the time, but it is discontinued now. Makoto Kurosaki (brother of Yu Kurosaki, the maker ofthe Kurosaki Senko) is the smith from the AS Laser series and now has his own line at CKTG and the Ryusei is what the AS Laser series was! I have the 240mm gyuto, the 15mm nakiri and 270 Sujihiki. Awesome perfoming AS blade!
https://www.chefknivestogo.com/marygy24.html

The Kohetsu AS 240mm gyuto is also in stock at CKTG. Having used Kohetsu knives a lot and the AS Laser (now the Ryusei) series, I would give the nod to the Ryusei if you want an awesome 240mm AS blade!
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Re: Gyuto recommendation for a friend

Post by AlexZin »

Great! Thank you so much for your help with Gyuto. I have finally a short-list for my friend and he can chose now which gyuto to order :
Kurosaki Senko SG2 Gyuto 240mm
Kohetsu HAP40 Gyuto 240mm
Makoto AS Ryusei Gyuto 240mm

I do need your help and recommendation for another two knives:
petty 150mm - all around utility knife, price up to US$150,-, prefer WA handle. I personally like nryu Blue #2 Hammered Petty 150mm (https://www.chefknivestogo.com/kaanaspe13.html) , but unfortunately its not in stock at the moment
paring 80-90mm - price up $70, western handle is fine too.

I would very much appreciate your recommendation

thanks, Alex
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Re: Gyuto recommendation for a friend

Post by Infrared »

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Re: Gyuto recommendation for a friend

Post by AlexZin »

Infrared wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 7:56 am Gihei Blue #2 Petty 150mm https://www.chefknivestogo.com/gibl2pe15.html
Just to add a small question about the petty. What would be the most useful and practical size: 150mm or 130/135mm ?
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Re: Gyuto recommendation for a friend

Post by JASinIL2006 »

It depends on how you plan to use it. To me, the shorter petty knives (100-110) are essentially paring knives. The longer ones (150-160) are a nice size for an all-around utility knife, while the biggest petty knives (170+) are almost like small chefs knives. I have a small knife in the 125-130 mm range (not a J-knife but similar to a petty), that is sort a weird in-between size that I don't find very useful.
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Re: Gyuto recommendation for a friend

Post by AlexZin »

JASinIL2006 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 9:04 am It depends on how you plan to use it. To me, the shorter petty knives (100-110) are essentially paring knives. The longer ones (150-160) are a nice size for an all-around utility knife, while the biggest petty knives (170+) are almost like small chefs knives. I have a small knife in the 125-130 mm range (not a J-knife but similar to a petty), that is sort a weird in-between size that I don't find very useful.
Thanks, I have exactly the same thoughts: paring knife 80-100 fro delicate work and petty 150 for all around, utility knife. Petty in between is a weird size.
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Re: Gyuto recommendation for a friend

Post by AlexZin »

regarding the paring knife (80-90). I used to work with Tojiro DP Paring 90mm. Its a good blade for the money, but the handle is a bit odd. A bit too small and narrow. I wonder if its meant to be like this. As alternative I am looking to Kohetsu Blue #2 Petty 80mm (https://www.chefknivestogo.com/kobl2pe801.html). Did any of you gays tried both and can tell which one feels better and is easier to handle ?
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Re: Gyuto recommendation for a friend

Post by Radar53 »

AlexZin wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 6:10 am Great! Thank you so much for your help with Gyuto. I have finally a short-list for my friend and he can chose now which gyuto to order :
Kurosaki Senko SG2 Gyuto 240mm
Kohetsu HAP40 Gyuto 240mm
Makoto AS Ryusei Gyuto 240mm
I would very much appreciate your recommendation
thanks, Alex
All great knives and great steels. My only comment would be about getting your friend the HAP40 blade this early. HAP40 is an incredible steel, hard tough, keeps it's edge forever. Having said that it's also a steel that is quite a bit more difficult to sharpen, especially so for new sharpeners, who have enough to contend with in just starting this journey. A second consideration is that once sharpened, as a home cook, he probably wouldn't need to sharpen it again for more than six months and where's the fun in that??

Just a thought
Cheers Grant

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Re: Gyuto recommendation for a friend

Post by jbart65 »

I've got a Kohetsu Hap40, Grant, that I've found relatively easy to sharpen. Was expecting some difficulty, but really none at all. Can't say whether that is true of other makers' Hap40s, of course.

The Kohetsus are a very nice line of knives, from pettys to gyutos.
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Re: Gyuto recommendation for a friend

Post by Radar53 »

jbart65 wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 10:44 am I've got a Kohetsu Hap40, Grant, that I've found relatively easy to sharpen. Was expecting some difficulty, but really none at all. Can't say whether that is true of other makers' Hap40s, of course.

The Kohetsus are a very nice line of knives, from pettys to gyutos.
Hi Jeffry, I probably didn't frame my comment very well to start with, so thanks for clarifying. I use either Shapton Glass or diamond tapes on HAP40 and certainly with really good stones / tapes, I agree with you. Alex indicated in his first post that he was thinking of getting his friend an EdgePro set-up, which was what I had in my mind, because the standard EP stones would really struggle with HAP40 and I felt that could become a big downer for someone starting out.
Cheers Grant

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