210mm Nitro V Funayuki pass around?

[taz575]

Looking forward to seeing what you think of them! I sharpened them with my Bester 1200, Rika 5K, Yaginoshima Asagi and stropped with 8 and 2 micron CBN on leather.

[ronnie_suburban]

Looking forward to seeing what you think of them! I sharpened them with my Bester 1200, Rika 5K, Yaginoshima Asagi and stropped with 8 and 2 micron CBN on leather.

Yeah, the edge on the 210 is insane.

What better way to start out my leg of the pass-around than with a stir-fry? Plenty of knife work needed, several techniques involved and a diverse set of ingredients to tackle . . .


Mise En Place & Tim Johnson Nitro V Funayuki, 210mm
Coarsely chopped Chinese celery leaves, brunoised ginger, chopped Chinese celery, smashed & minced garlic, scallions, veg oil, sliced shiitakes & creminis, peapods, 5-spice powder, Sichuan peppercorn powder, hot red finger chiles, lotus root, chu hou paste, shiitake powder, oyster sauce, coarsely ground pork, minced chives, fermented black beans, cauliflower, Shaoxing cooking wine, soy sauce, dark/mushroom soy sauce and oyster sauce.

This knife was a pleasure to use. First, as I mentioned above, it has an incredible edge -- one of the sharpest I can remember using in a long time. And It handled everything so well. From the crisp, hard, radish-like lotus root to the fine mincing of the chives to the smashing and mincing of the garlic cloves, to the brunoise of the ginger, to the slicing of the soft, porous mushrooms. The tip was the perfect shape for freeing the cauliflower florets from their core. It just sailed through all of it. I'll be posting some more detailed notes throughout the week about both the knives Tim sent out in this pass-around.


Plated Up
Stir-Fried Ground Pork with lotus root, peapods and cauliflower. Garnished with chives and homemade chile oil. Leftover/reheated jasmine rice.

Thanks, Tim. I can already tell it's going to be a fun week!

[ronnie_suburban]

Wow! The edge on the 180mm is really effing sharp!


Honeycrisp Apple & Tim Johnson White #1, Funayuki, 180mm

So sharp, I had to stop and remind myself to slow down. This is the kind laser-like edge that provides no margin for error. And it helped turn my afternoon apple into quite the fancy dealio! That knife turned a medium-sized apple into ~30 evenly sliced pieces in a matter of moments. Just a total pleasure to use.

[XexoX]

Wow! The edge on the 180mm is really effing sharp!


Honeycrisp Apple & Tim Johnson White #1, Funayuki, 180mm

So sharp, I had to stop and remind myself to slow down. This is the kind laser-like edge that provides no margin for error. And it helped turn my afternoon apple into quite the fancy dealio! That knife turned a medium-sized apple into ~30 evenly sliced pieces in a matter of moments. Just a total pleasure to use.

Let us not minimize the skill of the wielder of said knife. Wish you had made a video of your slicing the apple. Maybe next time?

Edited to correct spelling after Mr. Suburban used the correct spelling in his post.

[taz575]

Its the same progression of sharpening on the Nitro V blade, wanted you to be able to compare the 2 steels with the same edge Its a bit thinner behind the edge though.

[ronnie_suburban]

Let us not minimize the skill of the weilder of said knife. Wish you had made a video of your slicing the apple. Maybe next time?

Very kind of you to say but my skills are decidedly average. I don't know how I could shoot any video at this point without someone else to wield the camera. I need both hands to cut!

Its the same progression of sharpening on the Nitro V blade, wanted you to be able to compare the 2 steels with the same edge Its a bit thinner behind the edge though.

Very interesting. I only cut the apple with the White 180mm but the difference was immediately noticeable. I'll try both knives on the next apple.

Beyond the apple, there was more kitchen work today with the 210mm Nitro V Funayuki, setting up a Sausage & Bean Stew . . .


Mise En Place & Tim Johnson Nitro V Funayuki, 210mm
Minced garlic, par-cooked cevap nuggets, bay leaves, diced onions, parsley fronds, spices (salt, black pepper, thyme, rosemary), 4x gelatinous pork stock, Celery Row: ribs, root & leaves, evoo, red wine, Tomato Corner: fresh, canned/diced & paste, carrot and soaked Mogette De Vendee' beans.

Several of the ingredients I used today are often benchmarked, at least anecdotally, in assessing the performance of knives. Because of its hard and uneven exterior, one that I was particularly interested in was the celery root . . .


Celeriac & Tim Johnson Nitro V Funayuki, 210mm
That's a pretty gnarly sucker but breaking it down was a non-issue. Ditto for the soft-skinned fresh tomatoes and the onions. Nothing I cook typically requires horizontal onion cutting -- with the natural rings, halving + crisscross cuts are usually enough dice them -- but I made some horizontal onion cuts today, mainly to see how the knife handled them. That was pleasantly uneventful. No hesitation, no tears, no juicing. Smashing garlic cloves and rocking them into a fine mince was also an easy task. The weight of the knife is good and well-distributed, and the handle is comfortable.

The only area I felt some resistance with the knife was on the carrot. I had to push the blade a bit more firmly and deliberately on the initial, lengthwise cuts to get through it. That said, once separated into quarter barrels, the dice was easy-breezey.

[taz575]

I gotta get some carrots for testing! They are pretty hard and will probably be a good testing medium for my grinds. The kid likes carrots, so he will be happy! I am doing the Keto diet, so my veggies are a bit limited. I do a lot with rutabaga, turnips, zucchini, celeriac, cauliflower and broccoli, (onions, peppers and mushrooms too) so that is what I have on hand to test with but are mostly soft ingredients. Occasionally I may get some potatoes or sweet potatoes to try and cook them for the wife and kid.

I wonder how the White #1 will do on carrots?

[ronnie_suburban]

I gotta get some carrots for testing! They are pretty hard and will probably be a good testing medium for my grinds. The kid likes carrots, so he will be happy! I am doing the Keto diet, so my veggies are a bit limited. I do a lot with rutabaga, turnips, zucchini, celeriac, cauliflower and broccoli, (onions, peppers and mushrooms too) so that is what I have on hand to test with but are mostly soft ingredients. Occasionally I may get some potatoes or sweet potatoes to try and cook them for the wife and kid.

I wonder how the White #1 will do on carrots?

I'll have a bit more on carrots later. Spoiler alert: they go well with corned beef & cabbage.

Would have been a massive missed opportunity on my part to not put these knives to use on the weekly slaw . . .


Green Cabbage, Carrot & Tim Johnson Funayuki Duo - White #1 180mm & Nitro V - 210mm

Used the 210 to halve the cabbage. I only had one halving to do and the larger knife seemed like the logical choice. From there, I split duty between the 2 knives to quarter, core and chop the cabbage. Both did just fine with the task but I think I slightly prefer the 180, at least for this. It just feels slicier and I felt like I was able to get thinner shreds with it. Maybe that's because it's a bit thinner at the spine? Maybe the white #1 just goes through cabbage more easily than Nitro V. Both knives performed very well but for this task, I'd be reaching for the 180 first.

[taz575]

Its probably the spine thickness. The white #1 is much thinner at the spine. I did a 210mm version of the white #1 and it was pretty much as thin at the spine.

Just though of this, too. The grind is also flatter on the 180mm along the sides of the blade. It is less convexed due the how thin it is, so that would mean it's not pushing itself away from the food as much as the 210mm Nitro V.

[ronnie_suburban]

Its probably the spine thickness. The white #1 is much thinner at the spine. I did a 210mm version of the white #1 and it was pretty much as thin at the spine.

Just though of this, too. The grind is also flatter on the 180mm along the sides of the blade. It is less convexed due the how thin it is, so that would mean it's not pushing itself away from the food as much as the 210mm Nitro V.

Noted. Using my digital calipers, I did measure the spine thickness of both knives at the heel and the the 210mm/nitro v is approximately 2.4mm. The 180mm/white is approximately 2.2mm. But the distal taper is much more acute on the 180mm/white. It's gets thin much earlier and stays that way along the spine -- thinning just a bit more -- all the way down to the tip. It's quite impressive. On the 210mm/nitro v, it's a much more gradual and consistent tapering all the way down the spine, still ending up with a very laser-like tip. Btw, the crowning on the spines of both knives, especially 210mm/nitro v, is very nicely done. Better than on several of my J-knives.

[taz575]

Yeah, the White #1 have a hollow up near the spine and in order to get a clean metal finish, I gotta grind it fully to the spine, so it thins them out quickly. I am going to try the radius platen to clean up that hollow to see how that works instead of having the flat grind it. It should leave the spine a bit thicker/more stiff, but hopefully won't effect cutting ability too much.

One of my pet peeves is the spine/choil area. I try to round out those areas as much as possibly to make it comfy. Even just breaking the edges will still leave hot spots I found, so I go for a full rounding. The belt sander and flexibly belts makes it pretty easy!

[ronnie_suburban]

More board time with the the duo of Tim Johnson funayukis, prepping a 'get RID of stuff' stir-fry . . .


Mise En Place & Tim Johnson Funayuki Duo - Nitro V, 210mm & White #1, 180mm
Scallions, cauliflower, lotus root, celery root, shiitake mushrooms, minced ginger, red hot finger chiles, togarashi, whisky barrel-aged shoyu, minced garlic, shiro miso and sesame oil.

Used each knife for about 50% of each item and encountered some interesting differences on a couple of them. Both knives performed equally well on the garlic, ginger, scallions, chiles and cauliflower. On the shiitakes, which were a bit aged and had developed a somewhat leathery exterior, the heavier Nitro V prevailed. Its extra heft allowed for safer, more stable cutting. The lighter, White #1 was more prone to slipping. The Nitro V knife also performed better on the dense lotus root but here, it was more a matter of its beefier grind than its weight. Its broader shoulder helped the slicing and helped separate the slices from each other as they were made. On the surface, celery root appears pretty similar to lotus root but when it came to cutting it, the thinner, White #1 was the better performer. Celery root is not nearly as dense or hard as lotus root and the thinner White #1 blade was a better tool for the job. It went right through, while the thicker Nitro V blade stubbed just a bit on the thinner slices I was trying to create.

In the end, both knives performed very well and allowed for tight control of the cuts, which is really important with stir-fries. Otherwise, even with staggered starts, the ingredients don't all get done at the same time.

Here's a look at the final product . . .


Veggie Stir-Fry

[Jeff B]

Ronnie not only is your food awesome but I'm jealous of those Larchwood boards you have too!

[taz575]

I keep getting hungry when I read your cooking posts!!

I am glad I sent both in the pass around since they make it easy to see the difference between a laser and midweight! Food density and hardness plays a big role in how the knife performs, too as well as how you cut. More convex/heavier helps separate food and get through some foods, especially harder/firmer or taller foods. Lighter weight, thinner blade (less convexing) slips through some foods better, but sometimes doesn't have enough weight behind it, so it sometimes stops in the cut.

With proteins, I find less difference between midweight and laser. The protein is soft and flexible, so it doesn't effect the cut as much.

With some veggies (zucchini, tomato, peppers), I find I prefer a heavier weight blade (usually means more convex) since it helps go through the skin on the veggies. Other veggies, like a hard carrot or sweet potato, I have seen it both ways, but usually prefer a mid weight. The convexing helps the food separate, but if the food is more rigid, like a carrot, the thicker blade may wedge (food can't flex away from the sides as much, so it is getting pinched where it is thicker) or crack the food. In these cases, I often find a thinner blade slips through easier, but the thinner blades are lighter weight wise and will have more friction in the cut (more surface area of the food along the sides of the blade) and sometimes stop. I found if a straight down chop doesn't cut smooth, a push cut or guillotine and glide work better usually. A longer blade gives more mass, even if it is thinner, so a longer thinner blade may do pretty well overall, too compared to a shorter thinner blade. I have one Nakiri that has a stupidly heavy handle on it and it cuts really well, but the blade itself is very light and thin, so adding a heavier handle may help the overall weight when cutting some items. It's all a balancing act and everyone has their preferences. It's a struggle to find one knife that excels in all ingredients!

I tried to get a similar grind to my Tanaka Sekiso gyuto on the Nitro V funayuki since it seemed to perform well in everything I put it through and went just about as thin as I dared with the White #1. I have a S30V santoku-ish type knife(the blade shape is weird) from .140" thick steel stock that is heavier, but with a thicker grind and the extra weight seems to help push the grind through the food, so I may have to play with something like that more in the future. Maybe thicker steel with the S grind to give a nice convex down low, reduced surface area up top from the S grind, but still a medium overall weight?

[ronnie_suburban]

It's all a balancing act and everyone has their preferences. It's a struggle to find one knife that excels in all ingredients!

I think these comments are really what it's all about. No knife is ever going to be the one, not even for a single person, let alone for everyone. Factor in our diverse preferences, the multitude of different tasks that we perform with our knives, the frequency with which we use them, the diligence of our maintenance, etc. and you begin to understand just how many factors go into choosing the right knife for a particular job, setting, moment, etc. It's as complex as it is pleasurable.

As I documented here, I spent time over the weekend on a couple of cooking projects. It was fun using both your knives in tandem, comparing and contrasting them over the course of all the tasks I had to perform. By the end of the weekend -- and including the week that led up to it -- I had a much better sense of which knife I'd choose for which task. And I think that will extend beyond this pass-around to helping me to further understand which of the knives I own are best for certain tasks.

But even with the two Funayukis you made and generously shared, there are some pretty significant differences. Over the course of my week with them, I began to clearly see their personalities emerge. At first, they were Tim's two knives but by the end, there was the Stalwart: the 210mm Nitro V and the Finesse: the 180mm White #1. For a vast majority of what I cooked, they performed equally well. But for ~10-15% of the tasks, one knife was a noticeably better fit than the other. I had a lot of fun with them and as I mentioned above, I like to think I developed some tools for critical thinking that will help me enjoy, appreciate and assess the knives that are already in my collection.

Looks like mainly leftovers tonight, so probably not too much more cutting needed before I send these off to Jeff tomorrow but I'll try come back later with a few more thoughts, if the opportunity presents itself. Thanks again, for doing this. I really appreciate it.

[taz575]

Your welcome! I wanted to get these in the hands of some of the members here to get some feedback since I am just getting back into custom knife work after being out of the loop for several years!

Like you said, I did the Nitro V one as an all arounder for general use and the 180mm was a more light duty/finer tasks setup for more precision and finesse. I wasn't sure if it was too thin/light for use, so I wanted to see what others though of it. The 210mm version of the White #1 can be just as thin and is a bit taller, but is still extremely lightweight. I did one and was hesitant to sell it just because it was so thin and light; I wasn't sure if people would want something like that! It has it's place, but is more of a specialty blade than an everyday driver! I think if I did a thin full size blade in the future, I would go with a mono steel blade so it wouldn't be as bendy. Flexible is OK, but I don't like it when it stays bent! That would be a feasible option to offer a blade in both 3/32" steel for every day/more convex or 1/16" steel laser versions!

[ronnie_suburban]

Okay, one last hurrah before I pack up the knives and send them to Jeff. Rather than going dish by dish all-inclusive, here's everything I cut today, which includes prep for salad, salad dressing and part of the main course . . .


Mise En Place & Tim Johnson Funayuki Duo - Nitro V, 210mm & White #1, 180mm
Tomatoes, smoked kielbasa, English cucumbers, yellow bell pepper, celery, shallots, scallion tops, scallion bottoms and red onion.

After a week of using both knives, probably the best thing I can say is that they both went through the tomatoes like they were nothing. Very impressive all the way around, though. No matter the task -- chop,slice, mince, brunoise, score, etc. -- the knives did the jobs well and were a pleasure to use. You might say they put the "fun" in funayuki.

Thanks again, Tim. Heads up, Jeff!

[Jeff B]

Knives arrived safe and sound, now to have some fun!

Was confused on why such a big box until I opened it. Thanks Ronnie, so generous and very much appreciated!

[Jeff B]

I'm not the most verbose when it comes to reviews but here are some thoughts.
After all of Ronnie's great comments I've got to say he was right on in his evaluations! While using these knives everything I was thinking I remembered reading in Ronnie's reviews. Both knives performed beautifully, but as mentioned, they definitely have distinct personalities and each is the better, though ever so slightly, given a specific task.

The 180mm W#1 just literally feel through everything but where it really excelled is when you were wanting crazy thin slices of nearly anything. It nudged out the 210mm Nitro V there even though it performed very admirably itself.
When it came to cutting a tall dense carrot the 180 won out here also. It moved through the carrot cleanly and soooo effortlessly. The 210mm Nitro V had a lot more resistance and tended to crack the carrot some before making it through the cut. It's thicker spine and it's nice separating convex being a downfall here. I still can't complain about the job it did though it's just the 180 was noticeably better.

Slicing an apple both did very well but here I liked the confident feel and the separation of the 210 in this case. Cutting up fresh broccoli or cauliflower it was a coin toss for me but I can see the lighter more nimble 180 being the choice of others. I really wanted to cut a head of cabbage, that is usually one of my "go to" tests in determining how I'm going to like a knife, but this was one of the rare times there was none to be found in the fridge. I had too long a week to worry about scurrying out to find any either. From the overall use though I feel that the 210 would probably have performed well but would have taken a little more effort to push though than the 180. This is just an assumption based on other use and the shear thinness at the spine of the 180.
When it came to softer produce both of these knives performed effortlessly. The only reason to choose one over the other would be shear preference to weight and length. Do you want a little food separation or the feel of a laser. When slicing proteins I preferred the weightier 210.

The handle material is very unique on both these knives. The "Bubble Gum" handle, I forget what exactly it's made from I need to go back and check that out. It was comfortable and it had a nice "slip free" feel to it even when very nasty. I used that knife to cut up a roasted chicken and it did amazingly well! I can see this handle material being liked by those wanting something different, other than wood or flashy but being scorned by the traditionalists.
The epoxy handle on the 180 has an awesome look to it, I love the transparency and 3D vibe. I was pleasantly surprised by the grip it maintained when is use too. I expected it to get slippery at times but it never did.
Though they weren't terribly dull I put both knives to the stones just for the fun of it. I just used a 1k Shapton Pro and a natural Aizu and...WOW did they both get screaming sharp in a hurry!

Tim, to address your concerns about the extreme thinness and light weight of the 180mm and would anyone want something that light? Your 180 weighs in at 135 grams, my Kono HD2 240mm Gyuto weighs in at ONLY 12 MORE GRAMS! I don't find a 180mm knife this light to be a problem.
I really like the light relief you do to the heel at choil on your knives.

In the end I really enjoyed using both knives and there wasn't any task that either couldn't perform very well. Thanks Tim for the opportunity to use them!

And Ronnie --> I no longer have to be jealous of your Larch Wood board!

[taz575]

Glad you enjoyed them! The "bubble gum" handle is fabric and epoxy. It was a fabric jelly roll that I unrolled, soaked the pieces in epoxy and stacked up and squished down in a press while the epoxy cured. I took it to 2000 grit wet sanding and it still retained some grippiness to it, especially when wet. It feels pretty much the same at 600 grit as well, so it doesn't seem to change much with a higher polish. It still feels like fabric, not a plastic. I do straight stacked layers or camo patterns with these handles typically and can do most color schemes, or even solid colors. The Carbon Fiber has a 1000 grit finish on it, but like the fabric, still has a good feel when wet/gunky. It looks totally cool and different than the typical straight stacked carbon fiber with the weave showing. Hoping to make more soon!!

I am glad you guys liked the 180mm so much! I have another of that blank and it's bigger 210mm san mai brother I can grind, so I guess I gotta grind those out one of these days! I was hesitant because they were so thin and bendy, but it sounds like I don't have to worry!

JcMcNelly is up next!