gyuto / slicer size question. Pro and Home cook welcome

We encourage you to post your questions about kitchen knives here. We can give you help choosing a knife.
Post Reply
KetchupKing
Posts: 81
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:00 pm
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 1 time

gyuto / slicer size question. Pro and Home cook welcome

Post by KetchupKing »

So recently thinking about it, and I couldnt determine for myself which would be more useful in pro environment.. they both seem to have their ups and downs but im curious to see whats the opinion of you guys out there if you had to choose between the two options provided. so here they are :

choose option A or B to take to work

1) tall 210mm gyuto (50mm at heel), and a 240mm suji (39mm heel)

or

2) 240mm gyuto (54ish heel), and a 215mm suji (36mm at heel).

or curveball here

3) 228mm gyuto (52ish heel), and the 240 or 215 suji?

curious to see what you guys think is most functional. I like the thought of big gyuto to take down anything and then the 210mm suji to slice things, etc. but then again, if its doable, a little longer suji for that slice would be nice, and at 50 at the height, maybe 210 is big enough to take down most things due to that tall height. or could settle in between and go around 230ish gyuto, but then would you size up or down on the slicer? lol.

cliff
Posts: 135
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:54 pm
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 14 times

Re: gyuto / slicer size question. Pro and Home cook welcome

Post by cliff »

Don't see how there could be a right answer here. So much depends on the kind of cooking and space. As a home cook, I often will have a 270 gyuto and 210 petty out for general use, for the kinds of things I prepare. My 230 gyuto feels small at this point, but it is very versatile. I keep a longer slicer for actual slicing. The petty works as a utility knife. It's pretty good at most things, from last minute prep to portioning.

Of your options, I would pick between 2 and 3, leaning towards 2.

salemj
Posts: 3153
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:27 pm
Location: Victoria, BC
Has thanked: 23 times
Been thanked: 65 times

Re: gyuto / slicer size question. Pro and Home cook welcome

Post by salemj »

Just curious: is this all prep work? I feel like most pro questions are specifically divided by station, which are themselves task-specific.

I don't know how much slicing needs to be done in prep, but I can imagine a lot may need to be done on the line, in which case a 210 petty or 215 suji might work very well there. Otherwise, I don't know why you'd want a suji that is so short if you are doing prep slicing (or prep fillets). The same is true for the gyuto: if it is a prep monster, I imagine you want as big as there is space for, but if it is on the line, you probably want 210 or smaller. And in that sense, it also seems like most "line" knives are actually short at the heel, not tall, so I would think you may find the best balance on the line with one knife: a 210mm that is short at the heel (43mm, the standard for most Japanese-made monosteel gyutos), which also fits with the line mentality that there is usually only room/space for one knife.

Does that make sense? I'm not a pro, but I've read a lot of their responses about such things on the forum over the years.
~Joe

Comments: I'm short, a home cook, prefer lighter, thinner blades, and own mostly Konosukes but have used over a dozen brands.

KetchupKing
Posts: 81
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:00 pm
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: gyuto / slicer size question. Pro and Home cook welcome

Post by KetchupKing »

salemj wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 4:04 pm
Just curious: is this all prep work? I feel like most pro questions are specifically divided by station, which are themselves task-specific.

I don't know how much slicing needs to be done in prep, but I can imagine a lot may need to be done on the line, in which case a 210 petty or 215 suji might work very well there. Otherwise, I don't know why you'd want a suji that is so short if you are doing prep slicing (or prep fillets). The same is true for the gyuto: if it is a prep monster, I imagine you want as big as there is space for, but if it is on the line, you probably want 210 or smaller. And in that sense, it also seems like most "line" knives are actually short at the heel, not tall, so I would think you may find the best balance on the line with one knife: a 210mm that is short at the heel (43mm, the standard for most Japanese-made monosteel gyutos), which also fits with the line mentality that there is usually only room/space for one knife.

Does that make sense? I'm not a pro, but I've read a lot of their responses about such things on the forum over the years.
couple things to unload here that I never really put out into the forums, but just kept inside. first note is that, while I like the answer "depends on cuisine or your job specifically", what happens the moment you change kitchens or cuisines? I do think a general knife kit suits this premise best for that. A note that I think is pretty universal that I tend to agree with is that line space is a premium and having that 210 petty/suji is nice to have or a 180 size depending on the height. So that is the one point that I would say keeps me wanting to slide towards the taller gyuto for prep and 210 suji/petty.

Another note is that, I dont think a "slicer" knife has to be used to "slice" if that makes sense. To me, its just a generalization on how the knife is shaped no? to be used? meaning like of course a slicer would be shorter to have that less contact etc, but I could easily get at some some cabbage with a "slicer", though wouldnt be my first choice, but I know some people that actually strictly prep everything with 240mm slicers lol.

So to go with 210 suji, i could double it as a "line knife" i guess, but I just wonder about the size then if i did need it to go through some actual slicing of fish etc, will that stroke run out of space with 8". Then cover the 240mm side of things but i wouldnt take that on the station for service, and would have to roll with taller 150 petty for that. I think to some degree i've always wanted the least amount of knives to do all if that makes sense. Meaning i could just say, ill get 90m,120,150,180,210,240,270 :lol: , but my question was to see how others thought to see if there was a more "efficient answer" than I could think of. I am barely leaning towards the longer 240 slicer with either the 210(50 height) gyuto or the 228(52height) gyuto, along with the 150mm slightly taller petty.

User avatar
Jeff B
Posts: 12126
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:59 pm
Location: Louisville, Kentucky
Has thanked: 152 times
Been thanked: 136 times

Re: gyuto / slicer size question. Pro and Home cook welcome

Post by Jeff B »

#2 and I'm always right.... 8-)
If God wanted me to be a vegetarian he wouldn't have made animals taste so good.

User avatar
lsboogy
Posts: 1335
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:23 pm
Location: Minneapolis
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 31 times

Re: gyuto / slicer size question. Pro and Home cook welcome

Post by lsboogy »

I have a 210 gyuto line knife (small enough for line work) and use a 270 suji for most slicing (Kikuichi) - reason long knives are good for slicing is they can do loner strokes - less saw marks in product. Even when we do brisket or other large cuts, we pull the stuff to a prep station for slicing in the kitchen I work in. But I would not go smaller than a 210 for line work

KetchupKing
Posts: 81
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:00 pm
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: gyuto / slicer size question. Pro and Home cook welcome

Post by KetchupKing »

Jeff B wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 9:59 pm
#2 and I'm always right.... 8-)
Care to say really fast why #2?

salemj
Posts: 3153
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:27 pm
Location: Victoria, BC
Has thanked: 23 times
Been thanked: 65 times

Re: gyuto / slicer size question. Pro and Home cook welcome

Post by salemj »

The added info above helps a lot. I was totally wrong in assuming you intended to use the suji as a slicer or fillet knife—it was a bad assumption. It was based on the fact that you seemed to like taller gyutos, so I assumed knuckle clearance was an issue and that you wouldn't use a suji for gyuto tasks given the short heel height. It was also based on the fact that you are emphasizing "suji" rather than "petty," even though lots of petty knives are available in the 210-215 range. However, that was clearly a bad assumption!

It makes way more sense to think of this as the building of a kit.

I have plenty of board space but I still prefer 200-230mm knives. It is rare that I use a true 240 or anything larger for general tasks. And, if I know space is going to get crowded (say, because I'm leaving some ingredients on the board as I prep rather than putting things in bowls), I tend to REALLY value my 210s. It is nice to not have to worry about the tip going through other ingredients or things that are already cut, and the smaller length helps. So, if you are not doing lots of volume prep or if your workspace tends to get crowded, I can see the preference for a shorter gyuto.

I bought a suji while back and sold it. I still "want" one, but the reality is that I find more use out of having a really long gyuto that is short at the heel, like my Ikeda KS (which is 255x48), or my Masamoto KS (which is also about 255x48). Both are excellent for slicing, for handling big product without wedging, etc. I can see how they would not be as good for filleting fish, but they are great for meat prep more generally.

But the mention of the KSes brings up the major contrast with, say, a 215 suji or petty. A knife like that is - again - for really tight quarters or smaller product...perhaps even product that is already broken down (or portioned) in a pro setting. So that is something to consider.

I don't break down whole animals or large combination cuts hardly ever, so my "kit" is essentially a 270 bread, a 255 gyuto, a mid-range gyuto, and ~200 gyuto, and a 120mm petty. I would probably cut the mid-range gyuto if I had to going in blind, but otherwise I'd choose two of the gyutos based on the workspace. I prefer a 120mm petty, but if I had to deal with trimming lots of larger cuts of meat and fish, I'd probably go for a 180.

Anyways, just trying to add some thoughts here. To me, this is still all about space. Yes: you want to be able to change jobs or whatever, but when you start talking differences of millimeters and optimization while using the minimal number of knives, I think you have to get specific and you have to accept compromise.
~Joe

Comments: I'm short, a home cook, prefer lighter, thinner blades, and own mostly Konosukes but have used over a dozen brands.

Post Reply