Dao Vua Sharpening Angle

[Paul282]

I purchased a Dao Vua 240 gyuto A) to see how I like a reactive blade, B) to see how I like that blade length and C) to practice sharpening on something other than stainless steel. I am a completely novice sharpener. I'm currently working on "mastering the 1k". I dont think that bit of background impacts the answer to this question but I wanted to provide that on the off chance it mattered. I think that Dao Vua knives bear some similarities to j knives but their hardness is closer to the German knife end of the spectrum I believe? Given that's true.. am I good to sharpen it at the one angle (~20°) that I'm building my sharpening muscle memory?

[Bensbites]

I am sure that will work. I am less concerned about my angle and more about finding a reproducible metric. For example, most blades I hold the knife in my right hand lay my index finger on the spine and hold the knife in an edge trailing position. I keep my index finger just off the stone. Reset the bevel on a course stone, same angle on a medium stone and you will be ready to roll!

[Altadan]

In my experience with the Daovua 210, I've found your observation about the hardness to ring true; on the one hand, my iteration doesn't seem to hold an edge for very long (which could have multiple reasons), and on the other, it is very amenable to honing on a steel, which tells me it wasn't heat-treated very hard. [On a different note, I find the reactivity, as well as many other attributes of the Daovua to be very, very different from Jknives]
Of course we're getting all manner of reports from these fun knives, and experiences differ some.

As for sharpening it,
you can, in practice, sharpen any knife to any degree you want. The various attributes of the steel, as well as its thickness behind the edge, will all determine how long it'll keep that edge.
That being said, you can just as well sharpen to ~20° on either side, and see how that works for you, and/or try more acute edges.

I myself enjoy acute angles, but I can tell you I'm finding my Daovua better dressed on a coarse/medium edge. 500 or 1k delivers the edge I enjoy working with, for the produce I cut with it.

[Bensbites]

In my experience with the Daovua 210, I've found your observation about the hardness to ring true; on the one hand, my iteration doesn't seem to hold an edge for very long (which could have multiple reasons), and on the other, it is very amenable to honing on a steel, which tells me it wasn't heat-treated very hard. [On a different note, I find the reactivity, as well as many other attributes of the Daovua to be very, very different from Jknives]
Of course we're getting all manner of reports from these fun knives, and experiences differ some.

As for sharpening it,
you can, in practice, sharpen any knife to any degree you want. The various attributes of the steel, as well as its thickness behind the edge, will all determine how long it'll keep that edge.
That being said, you can just as well sharpen to ~20° on either side, and see how that works for you, and/or try more acute edges.

I myself enjoy acute angles, but I can tell you I'm finding my Daovua better dressed on a coarse/medium edge. 500 or 1k delivers the edge I enjoy working with, for the produce I cut with it.

I have found once these go through a bevel set and a sharpening or two, they hold a better edge. I can assume things about the process, but once I remove the surface steel, they hold a nice edge. Not an R2 level edge retention, but acceptable to me.

[Altadan]

Certainly acceptable! I didn't mean to hint otherwise.
But, do you think that past the initial sharpening I would find an edge that does not take well to honing on steel? In other words, a much harder edge?

This doesn't quite answer the OP, but it's tangential

[Jeff B]

The carbon steel used in the Daovua is not very reactive, in my experience, compared to Hitachi paper and most other carbon steels used in knives.
If ~20° is the angle that you will use most when sharpening it is perfectly fine to use it when practicing with the Daovua. That angle will work fine with that knife.

[Paul282]

Certainly acceptable! I didn't mean to hint otherwise.
But, do you think that past the initial sharpening I would find an edge that does not take well to honing on steel? In other words, a much harder edge?

This doesn't quite answer the OP, but it's tangential

A tangent isnt bothering me. I'm just here to soak up as much info as possible. Any information regarding Dao Vua knives is appreciated. Thanks for the replies!

[Paul282]

The carbon steel used in the Daovua is not very reactive, in my experience, compared to Hitachi paper and most other carbon steels used in knives.
If ~20° is the angle that you will use most when sharpening it is perfectly fine to use it when practicing with the Daovua. That angle will work fine with that knife.

Good to know about the reactivity. Sounds like a good fit for my first experience outside of stainless steel. If I have trouble taking care of this then I'll know to steer clear of the traditional japanese steels.

[Altadan]

The carbon steel used in the Daovua is not very reactive, in my experience, compared to Hitachi paper and most other carbon steels used in knives.
If ~20° is the angle that you will use most when sharpening it is perfectly fine to use it when practicing with the Daovua. That angle will work fine with that knife.

Good to know about the reactivity. Sounds like a good fit for my first experience outside of stainless steel. If I have trouble taking care of this then I'll know to steer clear of the traditional japanese steels.

Anyone willing to try, is usually more than apt to enjoy the "hassle" and the rewards of Hitachi carbon steels. The Daovua are very "fun" knives, because they're at once both rustic and good looking; carbon but also beater.
When you try a japanese edge from a good smith, you'll enjoy seeing the difference in refinement!

[ken123]

I'll just reinforce what has already been said. Of course there are many types of stainless steels so avoid thinking of them all as being the same. Same with carbon steels. So a white carbon steel blade will take an edge easily compared to the effort of sharpening a blue or Aogami blue steel blade.

What angle to sharpen comes with personal experience. More acute angles tend to cut better but are more brittle. If you are heavy handed and get a chipped edge, go for a more blunt edge. 10 degree per side (10 dps) is usually too fine, 15-20 typical and coarser for heavy work. In the extreme, a 90 dps edge is used for cutting sheet metal for instance.

Part of the 'fun' of doing your own knife is fine tuning your edges for YOUR needs. Have some fun and let us know if you hit some problems.

Since you are focusing on 1k stones, here is an excellent video of a 1k Nubatama Speckled Ume, medium hardness, to review. He does an excellent job!



---
Ken

[Paul282]

Man.. really enjoyed that video. The sound alone gave me the itch to do some sharpening. I typically try to learn and/or watch videos and then practice what I've learned.
Invariably, after practicing some, when I return to the lesson or video I pick up on something I missed before so thank you for the new content. Thank you for the clarification about not all stainless steel being the same. I think I assumed everyone else would assume I was referring to your standard wusthof, henckels, etc but even then there is probably some variability before you get to the harder stainless steels like zdp189 and hap40. I should have known better than to assume, much less double assume!

[Delboy]

I just used my Daovua tall nakiri an hour ago! It's one of my least expensive knives, but it's one of my overall favorites. I sharpen mine with an acute angle (Probably around 12-13 on each edge), & I've had the opposite experience a Altadan - I sharpened it when I first received it, have used the hell out of it, & haven't even needed to strop it yet. It's hardness, to me, is a sweet spot between Western & Japanese, say around 60 HRC. It absolutely KILLS my parents' Henckels & Wusthofs (Made in Germany) in performance, & edge retention. I definitely agree with everyone that these are super fun knives- they are such a great value for your money, are rustic/attractive at the same time, & they do react differently on a stone to most of the other common stainless steels out there.

[Cutuu]

ive felt my daova cleaver edge retention to be quite good at the very least i would be inclined to agree with delboy and honestly it seems to hold an edge better than some other knives at 60 hrc. i did a little sharpening job on it when i first got it. Since then its been getting beat up, and it keeps surprising me on how it seems to keep an edge. I will admit i havent deeply analyzed it. Its just a feeling or the way it seems. Ill have to give it a proper sharpening and track it better to make a strong assertion, but ill be very surprised if it doesnt blow away any German ive come into contact with ー concerning edge retention and edge taking.

[Radar53]

Here's a quick thumbnail cheat for you.
For 20dps aim to have the spine of the knife one third of the height of the blade above the stone.
For 15dps aim to have the spine of the knife one quarter of the height of the blade above the stone.
For 12dps aim to have the spine of the knife one fifth of the height of the blade above the stone.

If you're aiming to develop your muscle memory at 20dps, I think that would be absolutely fine for this knife