Considering edge pro, which stones

CKTG has a large amount of Edge Pro products so we've dedicated a forum to questions on Edge Pro sharpening systems, accessories and techniques.
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G8trwood
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Considering edge pro, which stones

Post by G8trwood »

Seriously looking at the edge pro as arthritis is hampering my freehand sharpening more and more.

My daily use knives are old SG2 Blazen and a Ginga SR15 for hard steels (90%) then a mix of softer steels.

What stones are recommended for these? Thanks !

Radar53
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Re: Considering edge pro, which stones

Post by Radar53 »

Hi there G8trwood. I have a pretty complete progression of EP stones from 150 grit to 10k and I use Shapton Glass, Nubatama plus 2 or 3 strays. I also have a pretty full progression of 3M diamond tapes from 120 way up to never, never land. CKtG now only seems to stock Shapton Glass & Pro. You just can't go wrong with either of those choices.

Ken123 sells the Nubatamas and probably other varieties as well, so it might just be worth dropping him a line. I definitely like mine.

Just from another perspective, I note you are considering a change to the EP because of arthritis. I'm a long time EP user and have added freehand sharpening to my skill-set just over 4 years ago. I mention this because I think that maybe the EP would be more difficult for you, if arthritis is becoming an issue. So if you can borrow one it might be worth just sharpening half a dozen knives (on a cold day) and checking out how that feels for you, to provide a comparison.

Anyway, all the best in your endeavours and I hope that you can continue to sharpen for many years to come.

Also to all CKtG forumites in these difficult days, my best wishes from the antipodes and a saying in Maori "Kia Kaha" (dig deep and stay strong).
Cheers Grant

Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not going to get you!!

snipes
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Re: Considering edge pro, which stones

Post by snipes »

I've been a happy Shapton Glass user for several years after switching away from Chosera. As a matter of fact I just finished flattening them all out back not more than an hour ago (500-8K).

Jason H
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Re: Considering edge pro, which stones

Post by Jason H »

After a lot of trial and error with numerous stones, I have found my perfect set up is CKTG diamond plates (140,400, 1000) and SG 2000 and 4000. I prefer Chosera but stick with SG because they make less of a mess.

d_rap
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Re: Considering edge pro, which stones

Post by d_rap »

New here, but I've been a regular edge pro user for almost 15 years, and have added frequent freehand sharpening over the past several years.

First, Radar53 makes a very important point: the EP will not necessarily ease your joints. It is very hands-on and repetitive, and arguably less fluid than free hand sharpening. You may or may not find relief. Plenty to recommend it, just not clear how it's going to work for you. I'm going to be 60, have an achy back, and many is the time I have tweaked it using my edge pro.

Second, I have fallen hard for EPs own diamond matrix stones, which do a beautiful job on everything from relatively easily sharpened steels to very hard "super steels" such as ZDP-189. I sharpen a lot of folding and hunting knives in addition to my kitchen knives (mostly freehand, see below), but the diamond stones are excellent for certain kinds of kitchen knives because even at high grits they leave some tooth. So you get polish with a bite for product like tomatoes. And the diamond matrix stones stay flat (up to a point) and last a very long time.

But I only use the EP for my western kitchen knives. When it comes to my Japanese knives, I very much prefer freehand because I am typically working to maintain the gentle convex profile characteristic of so many of these knives. And then there's the issue of progressive thinning to maintain geometry over multiple sharpenings. Because EP is a fixed angle system there is really no way to do anything but apply a perfect v-shaped microbevel at the edge, which is certainly just the thing at times, but it's a one-trick pony in that sense. You can also thin, but only completely flat. Therefore EP is fantastic on a flat-ground Benchmade pocket knife or a Victorinoz fibrox, and it will apply a microbevel like no one's business, but it doesn't do convex.
David
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Radar53
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Re: Considering edge pro, which stones

Post by Radar53 »

Hi There d-rap and welcome to the forum. Just a couple of comments on your post.

The EP matrix diamond stones are getting good feedback here, but I haven’t tried them yet. Probably as my stocks of the 3M diamond films run low I will have to grab a couple and give them a run. In terms of toothyness I find that my diamond films have a bit more tooth, than my Nubatama stones, which in turn have a bit more tooth than my Shaptons.

Regarding being able to do convex grinds on the EdgePro, that has been the topic of some discussion on the Original CKtG Forum before it blew up. Long story short, it can certainly be done on the EP and very precisely as well, but it is pretty fiddly and time consuming. Just for info check out the Hapstone V7 (another guided sharpening system) here: https://www.gritomatic.com/products/hap ... -sharpener and also their attachment for doing the convex grinds here; https://www.gritomatic.com/collections/ ... r-hapstone Cliff does a bit of a video as well. Also for the KME guided sharpener their attachment is here; https://www.gritomatic.com/collections/ ... od-for-kme

You also say "And then there's the issue of progressive thinning to maintain geometry over multiple sharpenings. Because EP is a fixed angle system there is really no way to do anything but apply a perfect v-shaped microbevel at the edge, which is certainly just the thing at times, but it's a one-trick pony in that sense.” I use the following to address both the convexing issue and also the progressive thinning requirements, primarily on European knives. I call it the”poor man’s convex” grind and I’ve posted on it previously. It works very well with European knives. With Japanese knives generally being much thinner, it’s somewhat unnecessary.

So the poor man’s convex consists of three parts ie the micro bevel, the main bevel and the thinning bevel. Everyone seems to call the bevels by different names , but I think what I’ve used here is pretty self explanatory. If I’m cutting this on a euro chef’s knife, let’s say I’m aiming for a final microbevel angle of 20dps. That would make my main bevel angle say 17dps and the thinning angle say 14dps. There is no magic in the 3dps separation and these angles can be adjusted to suit any need, application or preference. Eg you could choose 20,18,16 or 21,17,14 or 22,20,15 etc etc. Start by cutting the thinning bevel, followed by the main bevel and finally the micro bevel.

Once normal stropping is not refreshing the edge satisfactorily, I would subsequently touch up just by regrinding the microbevel a little. I probably do this at for least a couple of touch-ups. From then onward I would reset the main bevel followed of course the microbevel. Maybe after half a dozen sharpenings or so I would go back and start from scratch by resetting the thinning bevel, main bevel & micro bevel for a full reset.

For Japanese knives I mainly just play with the microbevel because I’ve got a few knives now, all in a rotation and with harder steels and not that much use, I don’t get to sharpen any given knife that often. Very occasionally I thin a little. YMMV
Cheers Grant

Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not going to get you!!

d_rap
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Re: Considering edge pro, which stones

Post by d_rap »

Thank you for the warm welcome Grant. This is quite the operation. Haven’t learned so much from reading and listening in a long time. I spend a lot of time here, and even more cooking with my latest purchases (I’ve got a Takeda 240 stainless clad arriving tomorrow, and I’m like a kid the day before his birthday.)

Don’t want to hijack this discussion but I’d love to peruse some of those old threads—I know almost nothing about the old forum, although I see it alluded to from time to time. And I did realize, when I saw a dedicated Edge Pro sub forum in a forum dedicated to Japanese knives, that a number of members used the EP to good effect on these knives.

I’m a big fan of Gritomatic, and have spoken to the owner, Constantin, a number of times—to the OP and others who may not know, they have some great systems, stones and accessories for the EP and much more. The Venev lines for EP and freehand come highly recommended, and I have seen them discussed elsewhere on the forum.

My good friend has a KME, and he uses the convex rod on his bark rivers and says he loves it. My concern would be that the arc is fixed (5 degrees apparently), so what would it do to the edge of my Anryu AS 240, for example, which is very thin and ever so gently convexed.

So this thread may not be the place, but I would love to go back and forth a bit about the EP and its pros and cons when it comes to Japanese kitchen knives. In short, I very much appreciate your detailed description of your three bevel approach, and I have no doubt the results can be excellent. I'd be curious to hear more about how that method works and how the knife cuts (are there slight hang ups on the shoulders the facets create, etc? Would you ever feather the transitions freehand after setting up the three angles?) In any event the step by step was actually very helpful and informative. I have thinned with the EP, and created compound bevels, but never theorized the method to that extent. So thank you.

And to the OP, if you’re interested, I can go into more detail about the EP diamond matrix stones, which I have been using fairly extensively for the past year. Expensive, yes, and I like some grits better than others, but they are generally excellent.
David
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Home cook

Radar53
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Re: Considering edge pro, which stones

Post by Radar53 »

Hi d_rap. Not wanting to hi-jack the OP's thread I've sent you a PM
Cheers Grant

Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not going to get you!!

G8trwood
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Re: Considering edge pro, which stones

Post by G8trwood »

Just and update, I bought the shapton glass set through cktg. I did have problems at first with my hands, but switched to a much stronger magnet under the base and it helped considerably . I can use a very light touch now. Still adjusting to the stones. Working better now as they are getting broken in more. Need to get the table clamp or build a little storage box that it attaches to. Definitely way slower than freehand, but talk about even bevels!

And feel free to hijack!

Cheers

d_rap
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Re: Considering edge pro, which stones

Post by d_rap »

I have the Apex model, and the clamp attachment was a game changer.

Glad to hear you took the plunge and the bevels are paying dividends. Let us know how things are progressing.
David
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