Best way to sharpen a single bevel?

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Mitch5
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Best way to sharpen a single bevel?

Post by Mitch5 »

I recently bought a single bevel knife, and have some concerns about sharpening. I have done a lot of research on it, and understand how it’s done. The thing I’m not sure about is the geometry of the right side of the blade. Some said to sharpen the whole bevel into one large bevel all the way to the edge, some said to blend another bevel to create a convex bevel near the edge, and some said to add a micro bevel. So I am wondering which is the best option. The knife I have looks like it has one large flat bevel with a very small micro bevel.
cliff
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Re: Best way to sharpen a single bevel?

Post by cliff »

I am no expert here, but I'll go first. What kind of knife is it, and what are you using it for? That would help answer the question of to micro-bevel or not. A Deba you're using to go through fish bones would benefit from one, especially at the heal; a yanagiba you're only going to use to portion and slice boneless fish would not.

Grinding the bevel flat is the simplest approach, and I gather some sushi chefs do this. But most of the authorities I've seen recommend against it, preferring a clam shell, hamaguri, grind: grind at the shinogi, carful to apply even pressure and keep it straight; then move to create another bevel into a zero grind at the edge. You can blend the two with a soft stone or use the mud from your stones on a hard felt block to blend the two cosmetically.

Someone correct me if I've got this wrong.
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Re: Best way to sharpen a single bevel?

Post by mauichef »

Very well stated cliff👍
Mitch5
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Re: Best way to sharpen a single bevel?

Post by Mitch5 »

Thanks for the advice, the knife I have is actually a chefs knife, I will be using it mostly for vegetables and some boneless proteins.
https://miuraknives.com/japanese-knife/ ... -size-21cm

I will probably go with the hamaguri grind. Is it necessary to start at the shinogi every time I sharpen, or could I just start with the secondary bevel and blend them? Also I don’t have any soft stones or a nanocloth, my best stone for this is a Ozuku Asagi. Do you think I will be able to blend the bevels with that? I also have a roo strop. One more question, would there be any issues with taping up the spine when I am removing the burr from the flat side to protect it?
cliff
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Re: Best way to sharpen a single bevel?

Post by cliff »

I have seen these knives listed before, and they are intriguing. Be aware, they will take a lot of practice -- single bevel knives steer, a lot. It should be fine for very short product, but even a shallot or apple will be a challenge.

On stones, that Ozuko is too hard for what I'm talking about. Even working up mud with an Atoma really won't work. You don't need to blend with a soft stone -- that's really a cosmetic issue. You can use some synthetics to do this. Do you have a King or Cerax stones?

To maintain the knife's geometry, you will need to sharpen the shinogi as you sharpen the edge. Do not tape the spine when sharpening the Ura -- the flat side. You will damage the knife. Only use gentle pressure with fine stones to polish the Ura. Your Ozuku is perfect for this.
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Re: Best way to sharpen a single bevel?

Post by Mitch5 »

Ya I love the knife. I was nervous about buying it because there wasn’t a lot of info on it or any reviews, but I was sold on it when I saw it was forged by the same guy that does the Konosuke Fujiyamas, because I love my FM blue#2. I have an Ishikawa single bevel too, so I have experience compensating the steer. The chef knife I just got actually doesn’t steer too bad tho, at least compared to the Ishikawa. The Ishikawas have a much shorter shinogi than the more traditional single bevels, so I have been only sharpening the secondary bevel on that. I wanted to sharpen this new one the right way since the grinds are more traditional, but I guess I should try that on the Ishikawa too.

My only other stones are a diamond plate and shapton glass stones, so all very hard lol. I’ll probably pick up a softer one to try that with. Any recommendations on a good soft, natural stone?
cliff
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Re: Best way to sharpen a single bevel?

Post by cliff »

I wonder if the Tanaka has some kind of micro-bevel on the Ura side that is minimizing steering? Shapton Glass is great for Ura sharpening -- only use high grit stones for that.

In terms of a soft natural, look for things rated 2 or 2.5. I use a Hakka Tomae, but there are other options. I think Cerax and certain Nubatamas are great among synthetics.

ETA - I forgot to ask: what are you using the knife for? You will likely want a micro-bevel. The edge will be pretty fragile.
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Re: Best way to sharpen a single bevel?

Post by atang »

Natural stones from the Tanba region are usually softer though not as fine a finish as the Hakka. I do like to use the softer stones for most all single bevel sharpening. There are some great offering from nubatama that excel for single bevel applications. I’m a fan of hamaguri shape as maintaining the heft of a yanagiba (to me) is the most important factor.
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Mitch5
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Re: Best way to sharpen a single bevel?

Post by Mitch5 »

It doesn’t look like there is a micro bevel on the ura side. I think I’m just comparing it to the ishikawa, which steers a lot because of the greater angle of the bevel. I’ll mostly be using the knife for vegetables, mostly peppers, onions, tomatoes, carrots, celery. I’ll have to practice the hamaguri sharpening. I think I’ll try to go without a micro bevel, and see how the edge retention is and if there is any chipping. I’m defiantly going to shop around for a soft stone too. Thanks for the advice and recommendations
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Re: Best way to sharpen a single bevel?

Post by gladius »

cliff
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Re: Best way to sharpen a single bevel?

Post by cliff »

I wonder if people typically use mid-grit stones on the Ura? I would worry about over sharpening the Ura.
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Re: Best way to sharpen a single bevel?

Post by d_rap »

cliff wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:48 am I wonder if people typically use mid-grit stones on the Ura? I would worry about over sharpening the Ura.
I share that concern.

My 5K Suehiro Rika is my go-to for the ura (and it's great for feathering/convexing the bevel or kireha side too). Not a natural, obviously, but it's a softer stone, gentle, builds up a nice slurry, and leaves a good finish, somewhere between a polish and a kasumi, depending on how I prepare the surface.

By the way, much of this discussion also applies to sharpening double-bevel knives like Takedas that pose the same questions around maintaining convex geometry and zero grinds (minus the ura questions of course). I tend to break the bevel sharpening into three parts in either case: pressure along the shinogi, sharpening the middle of the bevel, and then working the very edge. I also have been finding that some rocking, curving, arcing, edge trailing strokes as I'm finishing up on each stone helps to feather things together and at least approximate the maker's convexing.

The videos gladius posted above are excellent.
David
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