60 grit stone is here!

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lsboogy
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60 grit stone is here!

Post by lsboogy »

Ken sent me a beautiful big black Nubatama 60 grit stone. Got it today, letting it warm up on the counter before I soak it tomorrow (depends on if we are going out for lunch in Wisconsin tomorrow) Have the perfect knife for it - sisters Sabatier that has a smile due to poor sharpening over many years. I'll send Ken a couple pics if I get to it tomorrow, he can post pics, I can't

Thanks again bro, and I'll be back for a stone for my technician this summer. He uses hard chisels, and takes very good care of them, but he's still an Arkansas stone guy

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Re: 60 grit stone is here!

Post by jmcnelly85 »

Time to chip some knives!

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Re: 60 grit stone is here!

Post by atang »

You’ll love it Isboogy. I just received a flattener for my 60. Great stone. Speeds up a lot once abrasive is released. Try to not wash off the particles when wetting the stone, it will help keep up the cutting speed.
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Re: 60 grit stone is here!

Post by Drewski »

I couldn't believe how coarse a 60 grit felt when I received it last week. Should be very easy for the major repairs from abused knives. Picked up a 150 bamboo to follow it up, or to start on if there's not serious metal removal required. And a 60 grit diamond plate for flattening.

There's a CKTG 140 diamond plate at the bottom for reference.
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Re: 60 grit stone is here!

Post by jbart65 »

I’ve found a few knives so hard to sharpen and get a burr I had to switch from a Nuba 120 to the Atoma 140 diamond plate. These knives were causing the 120 to work too hard! Now I need a 60 grit diamond flattener.
(edited)
Jeffry B

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Re: 60 grit stone is here!

Post by nakneker »

Drewski wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:10 am
I couldn't believe how coarse a 60 grit felt when I received it last week. Should be very easy for the major repairs from abused knives. Picked up a 150 bamboo to follow it up, or to start on if there's not serious metal removal required. And a 60 grit diamond plate for flattening.

There's a CKTG 140 diamond plate at the bottom for reference.
20200105_235156.jpg
20200105_235223.jpg
That 60 grit is amazing for large stone work, follow it up with a 140, only takes a minute to take the 60 grit scratches out. I wish I would have invested in that long ago, the 80 grit CKTG is good for this too, not quite as fast but still much much faster than the 140 I used for so long.
“The goal is to die with memories, not dreams.”

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Re: 60 grit stone is here!

Post by Drewski »

Ken, I hope you are ok with me posting some of our conversation here. Some very handy information from Ken regarding these very coarse Nubatama stones:


I soak both briefly - 2 to 3 minutes. The 'trick' is to start using them even though the water is going through them. Get a bit of mud going on the stone surface. This blocks the water going through them quickly.

Let them dry WELL. Dont put them back in their boxes.(mildew). Let them air dry at room temp for a couple days or until you are ready to reuse them.

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Re: 60 grit stone is here!

Post by ken123 »

Thanks guys for the kind reviews!
Just to complete the picture, I have the Atoma grits (140 400 600 1200) as well as 46 60 100 150 grit plates and a 3000 grit plate. This gives you a full range of plates to work with from major reshaping and flattening to polishing applications.

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Re: 60 grit stone is here!

Post by ken123 »

... and I also have coarser stones, now including 24 grit, 46 grit, 60 grit 120, 150, 180, 220 ... etc.

Ken

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Re: 60 grit stone is here!

Post by Drewski »

Gave the 150 bamboo a go tonight. Was a bit surprised how quickly the water went through it. I can see why people have a sink bridge, the water just pours out the bottom of the stone. I anticipate the 60 grit to be even more of a challenge. Probably around 10 seconds until the stone top no longer had water on it. I used it quickly in that time to try to build up mud (sand?) and could definitely get some built up on the surface but I felt unsure how long, or if, I should be sharpening without some surface water. It just felt unnatural. I also found that the stone dished pretty quickly but maybe that was due to my improper usage.

It did do the trick with the knife I was sharpening, but it just felt like a lot of work to keep the stone wet. Am I doing something wrong? Do I need to change my expectations? Thanks.

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Re: 60 grit stone is here!

Post by nakneker »

Drewski wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:44 pm
Gave the 150 bamboo a go tonight. Was a bit surprised how quickly the water went through it. I can see why people have a sink bridge, the water just pours out the bottom of the stone. I anticipate the 60 grit to be even more of a challenge. Probably around 10 seconds until the stone top no longer had water on it. I used it quickly in that time to try to build up mud (sand?) and could definitely get some built up on the surface but I felt unsure how long, or if, I should be sharpening without some surface water. It just felt unnatural. I also found that the stone dished pretty quickly but maybe that was due to my improper usage.

It did do the trick with the knife I was sharpening, but it just felt like a lot of work to keep the stone wet. Am I doing something wrong? Do I need to change my expectations? Thanks.
You’ll get some good feedback, a lot of guys really like this stone.I have a nubatama 150, it’s a very useful stone and acts just as you describe but it works fast. I’ll put it under a decent stream of water and leave it for 5+ minutes, once it’s totally saturated it gives you a little more time to work. It’s does dish fast but it also works fast, I flatten after every use on a 60 grit diamond and it flattens very fast. I like low grit stones but only use that one when I need some serious heavy lifting done, it does what it’s designed to do well but I do like the feel of the 200-300 grit stones better if I can get away with one. I’ve come to value speed at the early stages of stone shaping or bevel repair, chip repair. It does help in that regard!

Your not doing anything wrong, nature of the beast.
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Re: 60 grit stone is here!

Post by Drewski »

nakneker wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:13 pm
Drewski wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:44 pm
Gave the 150 bamboo a go tonight. Was a bit surprised how quickly the water went through it. I can see why people have a sink bridge, the water just pours out the bottom of the stone. I anticipate the 60 grit to be even more of a challenge. Probably around 10 seconds until the stone top no longer had water on it. I used it quickly in that time to try to build up mud (sand?) and could definitely get some built up on the surface but I felt unsure how long, or if, I should be sharpening without some surface water. It just felt unnatural. I also found that the stone dished pretty quickly but maybe that was due to my improper usage.

It did do the trick with the knife I was sharpening, but it just felt like a lot of work to keep the stone wet. Am I doing something wrong? Do I need to change my expectations? Thanks.
You’ll get some good feedback, a lot of guys really like this stone.I have a nubatama 150, it’s a very useful stone and acts just as you describe but it works fast. I’ll put it under a decent stream of water and leave it for 5+ minutes, once it’s totally saturated it gives you a little more time to work. It’s does dish fast but it also works fast, I flatten after every use on a 60 grit diamond and it flattens very fast. I like low grit stones but only use that one when I need some serious heavy lifting done, it does what it’s designed to do well but I do like the feel of the 200-300 grit stones better if I can get away with one. I’ve come to value speed at the early stages of stone shaping or bevel repair, chip repair. It does help in that regard!

Your not doing anything wrong, nature of the beast.
Thanks for the reassurance. I did leave it under a tap of water for several minutes, and agreed that it flattens fast with a 60 grit diamond. The use of the 150 made the time on the 400 much faster/easier, which was my main goal in purchasing a 150.

Any comment on if I should be sharpening a blade on the stone when there is no water visible on the top of the stone (it falls into the stone and drains out the bottom)? At this point, there is some mud on the top of the stone, which is moist. It's almost like having some fine wet sand sitting on top of the stone. Or, should I splash a bit of water on the stone immediately after seeing the water disappear? (My gut says to always have water on the stone, but this is easier said than done with a 150 grit. Something that is never difficult with a 400+ grit stone).

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Re: 60 grit stone is here!

Post by ken123 »

Great posts. The 150 is porous and it does wear and cuts fast and flattens fast with the 60 grit plate. You can run it a bit dry until mud builds up. It does run through water quickly. The 24 grit stone is FAR more porous - you can run tap water right through it!
I would suggest just adding a splash of water as needed so that the stone is wet but not necessarily with a puddle on its surface.
Even dry the stone works but leaves black swarf on the stone - which can be lapped off. It is a rougher feel than a mid grit stone. I use mine often. The scratch pattern is a good bit finer than a 140 grit diamond plate.
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Re: 60 grit stone is here!

Post by lsboogy »

Drewski wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:46 pm
Ken, I hope you are ok with me posting some of our conversation here. Some very handy information from Ken regarding these very coarse Nubatama stones:


I soak both briefly - 2 to 3 minutes. The 'trick' is to start using them even though the wster is going through them. Get a bit of mud going on the stone surface. This blocks the water going through them quickly.

Let them dry WELL. Dont put them back in their boxes.(mildew). Let them air dry at room temp for a couple days or until you are ready to reuse them.
I've been spending most of my free time dealing with mom this year, but after a couple of phone calls with Ken I tried exactly that. I had gotten to the point I left the faucet on because the water just fell through the stone - it was like a screen rather than a window. Drewski and Ken123 sold me - after using it a bit on a couple of old German knives, it finally built up enough mud to start clogging the stone up a bit
If you get one of these super coarse stones, you need to think about how they are constructed. If you take a coffee can and put baseball sized rocks in it, it's full, but not really. Take a bunch of pea sized rocks and its full again, but with more stuff in it. The fill the same can to full with fine sand. The coarse stones are like the big rocks, they have lots of room for water to just pour through until you start breaking up some of the surface particles and maybe adding some steel dust into the mix. The stones work great, but they need a break in to clog the surface to keep some mud on top (very coarse mud, but they will make a mud eventually) - after the break in, they become super fast workers - spent 10 minutes repairing a knife that had a 1/2" tip break off - the initial re-profile was like using a grinder - took a couple minutes, and then went to a 220 and finished with a 1K (old German knife) - sister will have a good smaller knife today
I am becoming a believer is coarse stones, especially given how much knife damage I see working in a pro environment. But having coarse stones is a must - what would take hours on a 1K takes minutes on a 60 grit stone. A 1/4mm chip needs a 220, and anything bigger that needs fixing requires a coarser stone. Thanks Ken for talking me into this.

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Re: 60 grit stone is here!

Post by ken123 »

The analogy to big rocks is an excellent one!

The same holds true with compounds. A bottle of 300 micron CBN has relatively few particles in it ( couple hundred). High carat weight, few particles. At the other extreme 0.003 micron poly diamond (5.3 million grit) in a 2 oz bottle has over 60 TRILLION particles in it (+/- a few million :) ).

Coarser stones are a bit of an acquired taste. They give you lots of feedback which, if you are used to finer stones are a bit disconcerting. The goal is efficient metal removal. Using a fine stone for rapid metal removal is an incredible waste of time.

Letting the stone clog up is a great 'trick' for these porous stones. This includes the 24, 46 60 80 (coming soon) ..., and even up to 220 grit stones. Running it under a tap for a long time really doesn't help that much - the water just goes out. I'm glad Drew and I convinced you to try this approach!

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Re: 60 grit stone is here!

Post by jacko9 »

I too have the 150 Bamboo and water flows through it like Burney Falls. Ken sold me a 180 Bamboo Black and it works up mud and retains water. I soaked this stone for 30 minutes and started using it and it keeps cutting with an occasional splash. It's been a while Ken I think the 180 Black was a Bamboo?

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Re: 60 grit stone is here!

Post by ken123 »

"It's been a while Ken I think the 180 Black was a Bamboo?"

There is a 180 green ume and a 180 black bamboo.So many choices!

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Re: 60 grit stone is here!

Post by gladius »

ken123 wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 11:38 pm
There is a 180 green ume and a 180 black bamboo.So many choices!
—-
I have both and they are my go to low grit stones. I much prefer them to the 150 Bamboo. The green is excellent for wide bevel shaping.

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Re: 60 grit stone is here!

Post by ken123 »

There are choices for low grit stones, some recently added. I now have 24 46 60 and soon an 80 grit stone to add to the 120 150 180 etc stones. I do find the greener stones a bit softer and more optimal for softer more variable surfaces like single bevel knives.
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Re: 60 grit stone is here!

Post by Jason H »

Interesting thread here. My question is what are the advantages to using very low grit stones like these as opposed to using diamond plates?

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