Knife company recommendation for paring nakiri and 8 inch chefs.

[Insnekamkze86]

1)Pro or home cook?
Home cook but work as a banquet chef
2)What kind of knife do you want? (Gyuto, Santuko, Petty, Paring, Sujihiki, etc.)
Paring, Nakiri, and chefs knife
3) What size knife do you want?
Paring anywhere from 80 to 105 mm. So 3 to 4.25 inches. Nakiri 6 to 8 inches. Chefs 8 to 8.5 inches
4)How much do you want to spend?
Paring 50 to 100 dollars. Nakiri 100 to 200 dollars and the chefs knife 100 to 250 dollars; 300 at the max!!!
5) Do you prefer all stainless, stainless clad over reactive carbon, or all reactive carbon construction?
stainless steel or a semi stainless. like vg5, vg10, aus10, sg2/p2 and hap40.
6)Do you prefer Western or Japanese handle?
western since haven't had much luck with d shaped handles for my left hand.
7)What are your main knife/knives now?
3.5 inch paring, 6 inch nakiri with a short handle from kai, and a 8 inch dalstrong phantom chefs knife Knives i don't use 8 inch henckle chef and a 6 inch kai chef
8)Are your knife skills excellent, good, fair?
Fair I've learn the hard way to cut properly with a knife.
9)What cutting techniques do you prefer? Are you a rocker, chopper or push/pull cutter?
I use a mix of styles, chopping, rocking and slicing, with little to rare use of push pull or dragging.
10)Do you know how to sharpen?
Yes I'm currently using a tri oil stone system from Norton that's at work. Hopefully soon i be able to get a set of shapton pros.

Additional info;
I mostly use my knife/knives for salad prep, along with deli meats and cheeses, and also slicing meat on a carving station. 10 to 12 hours a day, doing small dice on product like tomatoes onions and sometimes cucumbers, deli meats and cheeses. Usually like 1 to 3 cases a piece deepening on how big the party is. My chef knife usually lasts a month before i have to use a fine Indian stone for touch ups otherwise mostly use a steel honing rod to help with the edge. So looking for a better or a upgrade in steel from the aus8a steel and 420hc steel that I'm currently using.
I prefer thinner style knives with a lighter weight handle with a edge anywhere from 10 to 16 degrees on each side of the blade. I use a pinch grip for cutting and when i get fatigued i use a higher pinch grip on the blade. So the handle being comfortable besides have a great steel is what im looking for that isnt north of 300.
The few knives i was looking at was the miyabi mizu, yaxell gou and yaxell tsuchimon. I was looking at shun kanso but wasnt sure about the choil height of the blade.
Blade height I'm looking for is from 44.5 to 48 mm at the choil on the chefs and nakiri knives. Ede retenition i would like anywhere from a couple of months to 6 months. I don't really abuse my knives but also sometimes use them for everything too. The kais with 420hc lasted 6 months before needed sharping now its about 3 months and the dalstrong with aus8a only lasts a month.
I would prefer knives without bolsters but haven't been able to find many, mostly only knives with half bolsters and end caps which i know makes the knife handle heavy which is what I'm trying to avoid again.

Weight of knife i would like to be anywhere from 4.5 to 7 ounces for both the nakiri and chefs knife. Since i might be getting a western handle instead of a d handle weight would be nice between 6 and 7 ounces. My old henckle was 7.5 ounces and it was decent but the full bolster made me not use it anymore.
Thickness of spine anywhere from 1.5 to 2.5 mm is what I'm looking for. I never used 3 mm thick spine before since it sounded to thick for my liking so have no experience over 2 mm.
I like the flatter profile on the chefs knife vs the big curve on the belly that you see on German style blades. Yes i do some rocking so i do like a little belly curve just not a lot. Like a thin tip vs a heavy thick style tip on a knife for a chefs. If Global knives didn't have such a small handle i would just buy them but they hurt my hand and automatically cause me fatigue after little use. So hand size is medium to large not small. I was looking at the kohetsu blue number 2 steel with stainless cladding but have to many people not using my blades correctly and afraid they will rust since they don't clean them after use sometimes.

I think I've narrowed it down to the miyabi mizu or yaxell gou knives but not sure yet, was wondering if someone could help me out or try and recommend a different knife company. And yes i know miyabi's don't have nakiri so i would have to get a santoku in its place but mainly trying to decide for a chefs knife and a paring knife are the main two knives i need and would like to get a nakiri's to replace my kai knife. Thank you for your time and help, Cory.

[Insnekamkze86]

Also how awkward is it to use a 120/130 mm petty as a paring knife to peel and cut potatoes? I am finding some nice gyutos on the site but notice from the company im looking at they only have the 120 to 150 mm petty knifes, which are big compared to what im use to such as a smaller petty/paring knife.

[Lepus]

I hope we can offer some useful advice, Cory. This one is a bit of a bear. Unfortunately I fear you are going to find we have some expectations that might not match with yours, which is probably why this post went so long unanswered.

I think the most important thing that can improve your knife use is to look at what you are and should be expecting from your edges and sharpening habits. This is going to come with good and bad news. The bad news is that you are not going to get six months of sharpness in a high volume pro kitchen from anything. The best I think a knife can manage in that scenario is a few weeks, so even a month is a lot. The good news is that the upper limits on sharpening are almost certainly much, much higher than you have been able to reach. You may also find sharpening can be less of a chore than you think. I do not mean this to seem derisive but I think you should watch some good, community vetted tutorials. Jon Broida and Peter Nowlan on YouTube offer great resources and break the common burr centric sharpening into something approachable that can help you get a lot more out of your knives.

To that end, even though you asked about knives, I think your first and most valuable investment will be stones. Most of the popular lines are pretty nice. Coming from oil stones you would find the Shapton stones somewhat familiar. They're hard, thin stones that do not need to be lapped that often and need minimal water. They do not need to soak. The 320/1000/5000 set does a decent job, though you could start with just the 320 and 1000 to test the waters. If you wanted to start slower there is a 280/1500 Suehiro Cerax combo stone that you could consider. The 1500 side is fine enough to match many gyutos and the 280 side would help you work your current knives into better usable tools. If you wanted stones that would be more forgiving than the Shaptons and are a little more universally liked, a set of a Suehiro Cerax 320, Naniwa Professional 1000, and Suehiro Rika 5k is exceptional for most common kitchen knife steels. Whichever way you go, you will want a flattening plate or stone, too.

Given the choice to use a set with a $300 gyuto, a $200 nakiri, a $100 paring knife, and only house oil stones or a set of a $100 gyuto, a $20 paring knife, and three good water stones, I would take the water stones with absolutely no consideration.

I hesitate to suggest some knives here because you're in a weird place. You have a highly developed sense of what you do and do not want in a knife, which is wonderful, but I think that might change as your sharpening ability expands. The Miyabi and Yaxell brands are pretty mainstream and are not going to be popular around here. Both are, to be blunt, usually badly overpriced relative to what they offer. R2 steel is also not something I suggest right now. R2 is not particularly difficult to sharpen, but it is not easy, either. If you are struggling to match the edge performance your Kai knives gave you out of the box R2 is going to be a frustration.

I think you need a Kanehide PS60 or TK 210mm gyuto. PS60 is a stainless steel, the TK steel is a semi-stainless. Both come with decent sturdy grinds, they have great fit and finish for the price, and they're easy to sharpen. They also fit your request pretty well. After some time with one of those and some new stones, I think you should buy another knife with fresh insight. I have never been sorry to make use of free shipping by spreading out my orders.

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/kabe.html

I also have a few other miscellaneous points.
* Wa handles do not always come shaped asymmetricaly. You would find oval or octagonal handles just as comfortable as right handed cooks. If you just prefer Westerns, that's fine.
* For peeling a petty is often a subpar choice, as you suspect. Petties are utility knives. The default nice paring knife on the market is the Mac Pro, which is a great knife for most pro needs. The handle is nicely shaped and the steel usually fits how the knife is used perfectly. A lot of people like the Shun Classic, too, and Shun does make a left handed version, but I like the Mac better.
* Your knife selection is up to you, but a santoku isn't typically a great replacement for a nakiri or vice versa. The greatest strength of a nakiri is that is has an almost entirely flat body that an be used to break down most vegetables well, giving you a long flat spot, while a santoku is a compact all purpose knife, able to be used for anything but largely falling short of a gyuto. If a knife line has one pattern you want but not another, it would usually be better overall to buy the missing pattern from a different line than to substitute in something else.

I'm sorry for not being able to answer your request more straightforwardly.

[Insnekamkze86]

Thank you for your response and those line of knives look nice but they only have a petty of 120 mm and i would like to have my knives from the same line or manufacture. I was looking at blue steel but wasn't sure how well it be in a pro environment. I take care of my knives but sometimes other people don't. The line i was looking at was the Kohetsu blue number 2 which does have what im looking for but have heard the fit and finish isn't that really good on them.

For stones I was looking at shapton 120, 1k, and 5k stones once i get a new knife/knives. Another reason i wasn't looking at wa handles is because most are d shaped and don't want that again unless i think the knife is going to be worth it and the octagonal handles looked uncomfortable and didn't want to be stuck with a knife i didn't like because of the handle.
The mac knifes and the tojiors i have heard mixed reviews about more negative than positive so wasn't sure to try them or not. Also the spine and choil areas being sharp is something i would like to avoid as well. Also yes a 6 month window is to long for a edge to last so a month would be nice but was hoping to find a steel that might last longer than that. Fit and finish along with not being long or high enough is why i was unhappy with my kais.

Thank you again for your time. Cory

[jbart65]

I've owned a variety of Macs over the years and the Pro line is excellent. The parer is very good.

I've owned or tried almost 100 Japanese knives. Most do not have D handles - I am a lefty and I do not like them. Octagonal handles are quite comfortable. The lightness of the handle also means you'll feel less fatique.

I strongly suggest moving away from wanting lines from the same manufacturer. Some makers do one thing better than another. Why not get the best of each style of knife you can afford for your particular tasks?

If others who take less care of knives are going to use your stuff, I would not get something very expensive. I'd get one of the Kohetsus. Excellent all round knives for the money with sufficient fit and finish for a restaurant. As for sharp spine and choil, I used sandpaper to take the edges off. Took 10 minutes. Tape around knife, sand with 100 500 and 100 grit or some such. Rarely have I had to do that, however.

What would you use a nakiri mostly for? The best value on site is probably the Gihei, but the Kohetsus are also a great option.

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/gibl2na16.html

[Insnekamkze86]

I use a nakiri for vegetables such as tomatoes cumubers, and onions stuff like that. Otherwise mostly only use the chef knife for daily tasks. And I like my knives from the same company if possible I'm weird like that sorry if some aren't.
Kohetsu knives look nice but their fit and finish looks like they have issues. The masamoto and Misono knives sounded interesting but their 70/30 grind sounded like it might cause a problem since I'm use to a 50/50 grind on a knife.

[Lepus]

Your priorities don't seem to match the way most of us would probably go about this purchase, so I dont think you're going to get much more advice, but that's fine. You can trust that most of the middle to higher end Japanese knives on the market are quite capable, including Masamotos, Misonos, and Kohetsus.

You will not need to worry much about grind asymmetry, it's just how Japanese knives are usually shaped and doesn't largely impact how a knife is sharpened or used. Usually only more extreme 90/10 style grinds lead to much steering or need different sharpening.

Kohetsu is a CKTG house brand that is an umbrella for half a dozen makers, so the various knives will have different levels of fit and finish. Most of them have decent to good fit and finish. The Kohetsu Blue #2 line's fit and finish is middling but sufficient for professional use.

If you have any other specific questions I'll answer them to the best of my ability.

[Drewski]

I used to think the same about having a matching set. Started out years ago with Global (a la Anthony Bourdain) and had a bunch of those which looked cool. But the more I found out about J knives (mostly from this site), the more I realized that different makers had knives with different strengths and styles. Now, it doesn't matter that my knives don't match, just that they all perform and do what I want them to.

Also, I love my Mac Pro 270, which was my first stray from Global. Still use it regularly.

If you are going to be stubborn about needing a matching set, you could consider the Masakage Yuki or Koishi lines.

[salemj]

I'm going to be super candid here, but please don't take that as being presumptive: I respect any level of personal preference and I'm just trying to provide advice that I think will match your own preferences while also helping with your aspiration to improve the functionality of your kit.

Out of the probably hundreds of people that read this forum, most of the main contributors and enthusiasts are a small bunch—I'd guess the vast majority of people are actually a lot more like you, Cory, than like most of the enthusiasts here. Nonetheless, I think one important point comes through in your post, which is this: I'm not sure that you've really tried any non "brick and mortar" or "mass-produced" brands.

There's a huge difference between brands that sell thousands of knives across many stores every day, and those that have a much more limited supply, and the differences are not just in how the knives are usually made, but also relate to how the companies spend money on the knives and what they prioritize for customers. All of that is to say: the differences are real, and they are a lot like what you want to get for your money.

What I mean is this: there's a big difference between owning a small business and going to a car dealership and looking for a van. You can buy a minivan which is designed for a family, or you can ask for a commercial van. The commercial van is going to seem like its lacks all sorts of comforts of the minivan, but we all know that is because the commercial van doesn't waste money on things that are less important in the long run, and instead puts more money into the things related to commercial use.

I think knives can be similar, especially in your price range. One thing I find a little limiting in your post is the note about sharp edges. This is like comparing the vans: I've tried a lot of knives, and what makes a knife comfortable in this respect is really personalized and is usually not AT ALL related to actual function or performance in the kitchen. It is much easier for a pro to just spend 3 minutes with a bit of sandpaper to customize any spine or choil than to let this single factor cause you to chose one knife over another. Handles are similar: a comfortable handle is important - a must, even - but if you usually use a pinch grip, it can be easy to confuse what makes a handle comfortable with how it looks. I'm VERY particular about handles, but in a way that is quite different than you: I'm most particular about how it feels and balances in my hand, and not its shape or how its cosmetics make me think it will feel. And the pairing knife question is a third: many pros treat the gyuto like the van purchase, and the pairing knife like an accessory (maybe an internal storage unit): the pairing knife can be a different brand, it is disposable when needed, and it is WAY cheaper, so it is not important that it matches the van, but rather than it does precisely what they want it to do as a "complement" to the van. In most cases, most pros will probably immediately say that spending more than X dollars on a pairng knife is a bad investment...so buying a pairing knife that "matches" a gyuto at a much higher price bracket is essentially buying a pairing knife that doesn't to its job well: all the money goes into upgrades that serve the gyuto (like a particular handle style, etc), but are actually bad for the pairing knife, which is used with a totally different grib, blade size, and balance, and therefore should NOT have a similar handle design, balance, etc., to the gyuto.

All of that is to say: I respect preferences a lot, and I think they are important, and I think you do a great job highlighting them. But I also think what would help you the most in the long run (not just this purchase, but future ones) is to buy ONE knife that you know is likely to at least satisfy your current preferences 90% but might introduce you to a different, more "commercial" design. Live with it for a while and see if it changes your priorities or not. If it doesn't, the knife will still serve you AND/OR you can resell it on the forum; if it does, then you have some other things to look for when you make your next purchase.

Point in fact: you barely mention grind at all, and when you mention spine thickness, it has virtually no relation to handmade knives (many handmade knives are 3mm or more at the handle junction, but are 2mm or less throughout the knife and have no relation to the "thickness" of the knife other than at the top near the heel). If you tried a different style knife, you might realize right away how much the grind affects broader performance AND sharpening/retention ability, among other things. I think you'd also realize that the symmetry thing is, like Lepus mentioned, mostly dependent on context and rarely an issue. Perhaps you realize these things already—I don't mean to patronize. But the reality is that you write about these features in a certain way that suggests you don't have experience with some of the alternatives.

I think a great knife to experience some of this would be one of the Kohetsu HAP40 gyutos. They come in Western and Wa versions, so you could choose whether you want to explore or not based on that. They are hugely popular among pros, so you could easily resell if you offered a small discount. They have probably the best edge retention of any knife on Mark's site. And they profile and design fits your preferences, too, although these might be a tad short at the heel (the Wa version would feel taller because it would have more space under the handle even at the same blade height, which is why lots of people prefer Wa handles, IMO). The only thing missing is that it will be harder to sharpen, but that is because it has such good edge retention that the steel wears slowly. Finally, these tend to come in a variety of sizes and profiles.

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/rihakn.html

And, from what I understand, these knives are a "game changer" for many up and coming chefs, which means they seem "proven" to do exactly what I suggest above: they may provide a bit more perspective in terms of the differences between most mass-produced brands and those that are a little more "commercial."

Another option would be this knife, which just came in:

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/tachgy21.html

These are already receiving rave reviews. This knife would probably offer an OOTB edge that would be better than anything you've ever experienced, ever—that is not a personal comment, but one based on the fact that many people who buy this knife, no matter what level of enthusiast, marvel at the edge. It is quite hard, so it will have great retention; the brand is known for its fit and finish, even at this price range, and it has most other things you're looking for in spades. What it does NOT have, however, are any matching blades in other sizes...so again, matches a lot of your boxes, but not all of them. It may reify your current preferences, or it may surprise you in certain ways that inform your priorities for your next purchase.

So, you can see that, even with just these two basic options, it is difficult to check all the boxes in your original post. But again, I refer to the vans: if you go and your priorities are how loud the interior is, the external and internal color, and the size of the cup holders, you'll be much happier with a minivan, which is totally fine—that is PRECISELY what they are designed to cover for thousands of people. But if you go in and the concerns are related to commercial function: how durable, how easy to maintain, how easy to customize, etc., all for a reasonable cost, then the other aspects have to fade into the background. I like the van analogy because I think it fits you: you are right between a "home cook" and a "commercial user." So, you face just this challenge. It isn't about better or worse, it is about deciding whether or not your priorities are shifting based on how you see the relationship between these two sides of yourself.

[Insnekamkze86]

Thank you for your responses, I haven't responded because I've been trying to look at more knives and read some forums trying to help me decide. Right now my main focus is a 8 inch or a 210 mm chefs knife, for now but would like like to find the other knives as well. I would prefer a yo handle but since i don't like bolsters will probably end up with a wa handle knife, but fit and finish is a deal breaker for me but like many have said sandpaper can fix my problem.

I stumbled across the Masakage Yuki line of knives on the cktg site that looked promising in both for what i want in matching and also for some examples that have been recommenced to me to try and look at. My only issue would be is the really thick spine at the heel of the knife, but have heard that wouldn't be a hindrance to me and also that everything is sold out as well. For a yo handle the jck natures gekko line also looks promising. But of course one line is a yo with white #2 steel core with stainless cladding, while the other line is a yo handle with vg10 steel core.

And yes don't know much about edges, but i like very sharp ones with low degree angles like 10 to 15 degrees per side. Sharpening experience is low but I've been doing it more and more so than i use to in the previous years, so it doesn't scare me and will be soon getting better stones than the house ones at work so i can get better experience on different stones than oil stones as well.

I know this might be a dumb question and should know already but for some reason cant remember, but between hap40, sg2/r2, ps60, , aeb-l/13c26, vg10 and the blue and white carbon steels. What is better at edge retention holding and being sharper at the sames time? I know heat treat comes into play here so that might vary from knife to knife.

For reason reason i might end up with Miyabi knives in the end or tojiro, but if I do not one of the two lines mentioned above will be chosen if they're in stock or maybe something like the kohetsu. Is where my head is at right now otherwise my decision is still in limbo because of all the choices and in the end not knowing more about the different feel of knives in the hand besides what i all ready know. But i have taken peoples thoughts and recommendations as dully noted and will still look around and see if i can make a sound choice that will suit my needs. Thank you for your time and help. Cory

[Jeff B]

Unfortunately in our world of online shopping, about the best you can do sometimes is just crunch all the information available and then just take a leap of faith and hope for the best. It's not easy to make a somewhat expensive purchase, intended to last decades, without the ability to look at, touch or test in person.

As far as your edge retention and being sharper question, R2 imo has the best balance of the two. It's not hard to sharpen, gets very sharp and holds that edge very respectably. Ginsan or G3 is another that I would keep in mind too, a very good stainless. AEB-L is a much better steel with the proper heat treatment than it's reputation would suggest, I wouldn't shy from it either. A couple highly respected US makers are renowned for their use of AEB-L, Devin Thomas and Randy Hauss. One of my favorite knives is a 240mm AEB-L gyuto made by Randy. Crazy sharp with excellent edge retention.

VG10 I tend to dismiss, Shun ruined it for me though smiths like Kurosaki are known to do wonders with it. Aus8 is another I stay away from when it comes to edge retention. Would take either over European steel though.

[Lepus]

All else being equal HAP40 and ZDP-189 will hold an edge longest, then some other less heavily alloyed PM steels like R2 and SRS-15, then some tool steels and aogami super, and then the rest fall into a general hodge podge. Of those I have used blue #2 will hold an edge best, but I think that is because so many good blacksmiths like it. VG10 can be up there and so are some higher hardness white steels. Ginsan and 19c27 don't hold an edge quite as well as those steels relatively, but they are easy to maintain. Lower hardness white steels, factory standard VG10, and mediocre blue #2 will be a step further down. Even so they're all an upgrade from where you are now.

HAP40 and R2 are pretty ideal for long term retention of a good edge. They are not as easy to sharpen as carbons, but the extra effort pays off. I have seen the Kohetsu HAP40 survive some awful stuff. I don't think the Yuki line is a good choice here; they hold an edge well for white steel, but edge retention is not their forte.

None of them will stand up well to abuse. If your coworkers are rough on your knives, none of them will work.

You will not be able to properly sharpen HAP40, ZDP-189, R2, SG2, or SRS-15 on oil stones. They're just too abrasion resistant. The Shaptons would work, though the planned 120->1000 jump is absolutely brutal.

It's hard trusting a knife you can't hold. I had to do it years ago, as have most of us. The good news is that the knives you are considering are so far ahead of everything else you have used it is hard for us to explain it. What we consider fit and finish issues many cooks would not notice. I mean this literally. I usually have other professional chefs and cooks try my knives and they frequently miss or just don't care about flaws I consider obvious. If you get something that does prioritize fit and finish like the Harukaze SRS-15, Kohetsu HAP40, or Yahiko R2 in hand, I don't think you will have any real issues. The Harukazes in particular are pretty much flawless.

[Insnekamkze86]

Thanks again for the input it is greatly appreciated. For stones yes I never really liked oil stones and know they're really only good for softer steels, don't have any issues using Aus8 on them but in comparison to the other steels not in the same category.

I'm either going to grab a king 1k/6k combo stone, a jck 1k/4k combo stone or try and get the Shaptons like a 1k and 5k stones.
I only use the oil stones at work because that all they have and I'm able to get a workable edge for the shift.

I only asked about the difference in steel edge retention because I don't mind a vg10 blade but wouldn't mind getting something that has better steel than vg10 that will of course be better in holding it's edge and less time sharpening it.

The main fit and finish issues I didn't really want to deal with ootb was having to sand down a choil or the spine to make it comfortable but to some that's me just nit picking, why I said anything in the first place. I can deal with a somewhat blocky or bigger than it should be handle even thought that's not what I want but doable in comparison to the sharp angles.

But my main problem is the leap of faith on such a big purchase doing it blindly, but as some have said you just have to take the jump and hope for the best.

If I do end up with a carbon I will be hiding it from everyone that's near me in the kitchen. But for right now I believe the carbons with a cladding are reserved for as a last effort in the decision process.

[Insnekamkze86]

Also does anyone have a opinion or toughs about the dojo as knives on the cktg website. They looked kind of interesting but the handle looks small and awkward.

[salemj]

Also does anyone have a opinion or toughs about the dojo as knives on the cktg website. They looked kind of interesting but the handle looks small and awkward.

Haven't used it but based on the specs and Steve's video and the images, several of the recommendations above would be better for you. I'm not sure if you noticed, but Steve specifically said it would need to be relieved with sandpaper, which is something you are trying to avoid...and I would expect this in this price range given that is it AS, which is one of the most expensive steels, but it is clearly a budget knife. It also has a suspicious size to weight ratio which - as you point out - likely means the handle is a bit awkward and undersized, and I am also personally hesitant about partial tangs, although another knife with a partial tang gets rave reviews from pros around here (the Takamura Migaki R2, which would be another viable option for you, although I don't particularly like this knife and it would likely need a bit of sandpaper treatment; it also comes in smaller sizes https://www.chefknivestogo.com/takamura.html ). A knife as cheap as the Dojo with AS steel would have to cut corners elsewhere, especially when it is not an "exclusive" house offering or brand like the Kanehide PS60, TK (both proprietary to Mark's store), or Kohetsu Hap40, Blue 2 (Mark's brand), or Takayuki Chromax (a large-batch order exclusive to CKTG), also recommended above.

I don't think you'd go wrong with a Myabi, and at least one user here really love the Koh in particular for a cheaper option that is still tough (although I felt the Koh definitely needed some sandpaper, as if often the case with knives that lack a bolster in this price range). I think the point of the advice above is just that you can do better in terms of functionality, especially at higher prices, but almost no one on the forum would argue that you can do better in terms of consistency of fit and finish or raw cosmetic appeal in the same price range as a global box brand: the global brands have that equation down and they prioritize those aspects well, plus they can afford heavy investment in the machines that do fit and finish most impressively, which tend to be perpetually expensive since they are all about grinding metal and handle resin at high polish. Plus, you can try the global brands in-store (albeit not under real-life conditions and without your own edge, so it is still somewhat blind). It seems like this is your comfort zone, and if you are willing to spend more money, there is no doubt you can find one of these knives that fits the bill and performs very well. As for brands, you already seem like you know the good ones, so then it just becomes a matter of what line you prefer in your cost bracket—I wouldn't expect edge retention to vary much since these knives are all designed with the same equation of durability and edge-taking for the given application (R2 is probably going to act the same regardless of whether it is a Shun or a Myabi, but it will probably be a big step up if it is a Takamura or a Kurosaki, which would likely have a better heat treatment designed for edge taking and performance over the sink-dropping durability of the global brands).

Also, I should clarify: when I talk about sanding, I'm referring to very thin knives without bolsters. Similarly designed knives sold by Shun, Wusthof, Henckles, Masamoto, and even Kikuichi have, in my hands, also occasionally needed sanding, even when the vast majority of users buying these knives from Williams-Sonoma would never, ever think to taking sandpaper to the choil. So, it really is a preference thing. I think most of us are erring on the side of caution because you seem very particular about this, but the reality is that you may find these knives perfectly comfortable out of the box.

[Insnekamkze86]

Thank you for your response. From everything I have seen and read so far I think my heart is with the kohetsu hap40 was 210.l, just not at 100 percent yet. My only concern is the handle since I never held or handled one before on a knife. Also I'm use to the d shape handles and some yo handles.

The only box it f doesn't check is the paring knife but as people have stated don't worry about and only concern you with the main knife your using, which right now is the chef knife for 90 percent of the my work load.

I let you guys know what I eventually decide if I can decide lol.

[Insnekamkze86]

I think i have come to a decision and its between the Takamura Chromax Gyuto 210mm and the Kanehide TK Gyuto 210mm. Of course are both a semi stainless steel blade construction. I would love to try my hand at a wa handle knife instead of the yo but i dont think i be disappointed with the yo handle on these two knives since i have heard awesome things about both on ft and finish and overall satisfaction with the knife performance.

Thank you to all that have chimed in and helped me with recommendations based on my original post for a knife company recommendation, of what i should take a look at and what would try and fit my needs the best. Also for stones will either be getting the shapton pros in 320, 1k and 5k grits or just the 1k and 5k stones to start with, so I can get away from oil stones.

[Insnekamkze86]

I ended up not getting any of the mentioned knives above. I ended up buying knives from dalstrong company. Which I don't regret but now I'm at a point where I want something different and more a wa style handle now in a 240.

[Drewski]

I ended up not getting any of the mentioned knives above. I ended up buying knives from dalstrong company. Which I don't regret but now I'm at a point where I want something different and more a wa style handle now in a 240.

Good luck!

[joanjet]

At that length the most comfortable knife I've ever used is the anryu 210mm blue #2 hammered gyuto.

The balance of the blade is so nice it feels like it's one of your fingers, and it is so light and sharp, I refuse to get rid of it no matter how many other gyutos I get