How much does the steel matter

[playingfetch]

For someone new to these knives it seems really difficult to pick which steel is the best. I know there are obvious differences between stainless and reactive steels, but aside from that how much of a difference are we talking about when comparing good quality knives? Is this like a 10% difference in edge holding ability or is it something really significant that a home cook would notice?

[d_rap]

I'll just start it off by saying that if you're talking about edge holding specifically (obviously only one dimension), then the differences between steels can be much more significant than 10 percent. An edge in HAP-40 or R2 (or ZDP-189) versus White 1 or 2 with similar grinds and geometry might differ by a factor of several hundred percent on the edge retention front. The HAP-40 knife will retain good working sharpness 2 to even 3 or more times as long. A Shibata in R2 versus one in AS, a carbon steel with excellent retention? Still a significant difference.

That said, if you sharpen and enjoy it, or even have tools for frequent touch-ups, then well maintained carbon steels can hold a working edge for months and that maintenance can level the curve. And while my knives in white or blue steel require more maintenance to stay really sharp, to me they also get sharp in a way that stainless can't quite match. Different users have different takes on these different feelings of "sharp," and that's where the differences are in the 10 percent range, perhaps. All of the knives at cktg get and stay very very sharp, for sure.

There's also hardness, toughness (a bend not break or chip factor), wear resistance (which effects how easy a steel is to sharpen related to but separate from hardness) and more.

But if you're primary concern is lasting sharpness, steel matters tremendously.

[Ozno_flash]

I would say if you’ve never owned carbon steel, get one to try. Get a cheaper one like kohetsu nashiji or yamashin or yoshimitsu fugen and a decent sharpening stone. See how you like it vs the stainless everyone is familiar with.

[XexoX]

I think Jeff B. said it best, "All steels are equal if you can't keep them sharp."

[Radar53]

Not only does the steel matter, but the forging, heat treatment & annealing of any given steel also plays a pretty large factor. As David says above, most of the steels on CKtG are going to be good, but even something like R2 can vary between different knife makers. The more I get into this the more the metallurgical aspects come into play.

For example over enthusiastic grinding of a fine edge can generate enough heat to affect the temper of the steel. I now wish that I had paid much more attention to my "Steels and Metallurgy" lectures some 45 years ago

[XexoX]

...I now wish that I had paid much more attention to my "Steels and Metallurgy" lectures some 45 years ago

None of us were good at paying attention when we were under 1 year of age. Be kind to yourself.

[lsboogy]

I think many of us fail to recognize the needs of a home cook versus those of us who cut up 3 boxes of onions to start the morning. My brother has one of these
https://www.chefknivestogo.com/tachgy21.html
Takamura Chromax knife his wife bought him for Christmas a couple years ago, and they use it nearly every day - works great for them and stays pretty sharp for a good while. I sharpen it a couple times a year for them, and they have a strop that they use weekly. But I no longer bring a knife roll to their house for cooking dinner - the knife is fine for a home cook (far better than a Miyabi or Shun, let alone their old white handled Wusthof knives they had sharpened at a grocery store for holiday use) - and anything that Mark sells is going to be better than almost anything you can buy at most home kitchen stores. Even the Daovua knives take and hold a pretty good edge - I have a couple I bought on whims and they are very nice blades for the money - and would probably do fine for a mid volume pro kitchen. Every maker on this site does a great job with the steel they use, and it would be more important to understand if the OP has a preference for cutting style (push/pull, rocker, choppier) than steel nuances. A white steel Tojiro Shirogami knife is probably going to be sharper and hold it's edge longer than anything most home cooks have ever used.

There is a questionnaire that Mark has put together that helps folk understand what the person is asking for - note that it only separates carbon and stainless steels - a HAP40 blade will keep and edge much longer than a W #2 steel blade, but even a white steel blade should have a good edge if simple maintenance (stropping etc) is done for 6 months or more in a home environment. If it turns you crank, go and get an exotic steel blade for home use - my brother thinks his is exotic and he is very proud of it - his neighbors all think he's got a real chef knife and has marvelous skills with it (it takes him a good minute to fine dice an onion) - and he is happy as a clam with it. Anything sold here should make a home user quite happy - and I worry more about smith and grind than steel as I spend more time with knives - and a mediocre MC63 (Miyabi version of SG2) blade will not perform anywhere near as well as a well done leaf spring steel knife in good hands.

[Robstreperous]

How much does the steel matter? To whom and for what — in other words it depends.

The thing that matters most is keeping the knife sharp. All dull knives cut the same: badly.

After that? If you’re a home cook with a decent cutting board and you’re not planning to cook more than 2 times a week and you’re not interested in learning the nuances of sharpening? It really doesn’t matter all that much assuming you’re deciding among good quality knives.

On the other hand if you’re a pro banging through 50 lbs of produce every morning before coffee? It matters a heck of a lot because you’d have more advanced needs for edge retention, possibly feel on board and certainly ability to take an edge.

Then of course there’s the enthusiast community (this is me) sometimes I’ll pick a knife just because of the steel. I want to try it, feel what it’s like to sharpen, see how sharp I can get it, etc etc etc.

In general though steel isn’t the first thing I look for when I’m picking a knife. But if I’m deciding between 2 or 3 I do have my preferences and it’ll influence me.

Helpful I hope?

[Jeff B]

For someone new to these knives it seems really difficult to pick which steel is the best....

For someone new to these knives there is no reason to get hung up on steel flavors. They will all be awesome compared to what you are used to and it takes a lot of time and experience to really tell the differences in many of them. At this point you just need a quality knife and there are many out there.

Given that, if you are new to sharpening too and are interested in learning then something with a carbon core is nice to practice with.

And all steel are equal if you can't keep them sharp.

[Eli Chaps]

To me, your question is better asked as, how much does edge retention really matter to a home cook?

Steel absolutely matters to edge retention, but how much edge retention does the average home cook need?

In practical terms, think it is way over valued. HT and geometry notwithstanding, put a good edge on your knife, then maintain it, and it will perform quite well for quite some time.

When starting out, put your money more toward sharpening gear and less toward fancy steels. Focus on ergonomics, design, etc. for your knife purchases.

[playingfetch]

To me, your question is better asked as, how much does edge retention really matter to a home cook?

Steel absolutely matters to edge retention, but how much edge retention does the average home cook need?

In practical terms, think it is way over valued. HT and geometry notwithstanding, put a good edge on your knife, then maintain it, and it will perform quite well for quite some time.

When starting out, put your money more toward sharpening gear and less toward fancy steels. Focus on ergonomics, design, etc. for your knife purchases.

I think you summarized it nicely. I know this forum is a mix of professional cooks, enthusiasts, and beginners and I fall into the last group. I've been cooking for 30 years and enjoy it on weekends, when I'm not rushed. For me, I just like having a knife that I enjoy using and that cuts well. I've always kept my knives sharp compared to my friends by sharpening with a lansky a few times a year, and touching up on a steel and a strop, as needed. I know many here sharpen well beyond that level. I bought a misuzu bunka from CKTG and am really enjoying how it glides through my food so easily (still has the factory edge).

[bob_m]

The blacksmith matters so much more in my opinion, once you get into premium steels anyway.

[7x57mm@gmail.com]

A white steel Tojiro Shirogami knife is probably going to be sharper and hold it's edge longer than anything most home cooks have ever used.

Testify! As a lot of you know....I'm a newbs newb here. My first J-knife was purchased New Year's Day this year...a Tojiro 150mm Petty W#2. The very first time using it....I looked left, then right and then straight ahead thinking to myself "How could I have missed out on this for the last 40 years". Next came the Anryu B#2 Hammered. This knife has shown me the errors of my ham fisted knife skills. Working on that daily. Looking forward to the Kuwabara tall Petty if I made it into the lucky 50's list

[XexoX]

A white steel Tojiro Shirogami knife is probably going to be sharper and hold it's edge longer than anything most home cooks have ever used.

Testify! As a lot of you know....I'm a newbs newb here. My first J-knife was purchased New Year's Day this year...a Tojiro 150mm Petty W#2. The very first time using it....I looked left, then right and then straight ahead thinking to myself "How could I have missed out on this for the last 40 years". Next came the Anryu B#2 Hammered. This knife has shown me the errors of my ham fisted knife skills. Working on that daily. Looking forward to the Kuwabara tall Petty if I made it into the lucky 50's list

Well, with that post, you are at 58, so I don't think it is going to be a problem for you.

[lsboogy]

A white steel Tojiro Shirogami knife is probably going to be sharper and hold it's edge longer than anything most home cooks have ever used.

Testify! As a lot of you know....I'm a newbs newb here. My first J-knife was purchased New Year's Day this year...a Tojiro 150mm Petty W#2. The very first time using it....I looked left, then right and then straight ahead thinking to myself "How could I have missed out on this for the last 40 years". Next came the Anryu B#2 Hammered. This knife has shown me the errors of my ham fisted knife skills. Working on that daily. Looking forward to the Kuwabara tall Petty if I made it into the lucky 50's list

get yourself some 50lb bags of onions and practice - less than $20 at costco

[Emieloss]

I do agree that blacksmith matters a lot. I have 3 knives in R2/SG2 steel. A Shiro Kamo, A Shibata Kotetsu and a Takamura Migeki. They're all different in terms of grind, profile, getting an edge on the stones, keeping an edge in use but also in feel. It's funny how much difference there can be in the same steel by different makers.

[playingfetch]

A white steel Tojiro Shirogami knife is probably going to be sharper and hold it's edge longer than anything most home cooks have ever used.

Testify! As a lot of you know....I'm a newbs newb here. My first J-knife was purchased New Year's Day this year...a Tojiro 150mm Petty W#2. The very first time using it....I looked left, then right and then straight ahead thinking to myself "How could I have missed out on this for the last 40 years". Next came the Anryu B#2 Hammered. This knife has shown me the errors of my ham fisted knife skills. Working on that daily. Looking forward to the Kuwabara tall Petty if I made it into the lucky 50's list

get yourself some 50lb bags of onions and practice - less than $20 at costco

What do you do with all the onions after they are chopped up and the house smells like you invested in an unusual air freshener???

[playingfetch]

I do agree that blacksmith matters a lot. I have 3 knives in R2/SG2 steel. A Shiro Kamo, A Shibata Kotetsu and a Takamura Migeki. They're all different in terms of grind, profile, getting an edge on the stones, keeping an edge in use but also in feel. It's funny how much difference there can be in the same steel by different makers.

How easy is that to notice by a home cook?

[taz575]

The knives CKTG offers will all work well for a home cook. I have a Tanaka Sekiso 240mm gyuto in Blue #2 that I used for 9 months. I did a full stone sharpening when I first got it and only had to strop it on 2 different occasions over a 9 month period. It could have gone much longer with just stropping, but I acid etched the blade, so I had to redo the edge with stones.

Pro cooks do a LOT more cutting/prep work in a shift that most home cooks do in a couple of weeks, so edge holding is more advantageous to them. I honestly wouldn't worry much about steel choice other than stainless or carbon at this point. If you cut a lot of acidic foods and aren't one to wash and fully dry the blade immediately, stainless or semi stainless is probably best. I use paper towels to make sure all of the moisture is off of the blade when I am done. Tomatoes, onions, etc will react to a carbon blade quickly, but the blade will "settle down" once a patina is formed.

A good end grain wood cutting board in maple, cherry or walnut will also help your edges last. Bamboo or plastic boards are harder on the edges, glass boards are the worst!

[playingfetch]

@taz575 - Looks like it's time to update my cutting boards then. I have bamboo and plastic...