Good Rocker

[ChefKnivesToGo]

Hello Mark:

Hope you are enjoying this holiday weekend.

I’ve been thinking about our next knives.

We have your Kanehide PS 185 bunka, Kurosaki Shizuku R2 210 gyuto, Masakage Kiri 135 ko-bunka, Kohetsu blue#2 150 honesuki, small CCK cleaver, and a Fujiwara Sujihiki. We have lots of western style knives that are not getting much use any more: Henckels, Wusthof, Victorinox, et al.

Sometimes, though, I still find myself reaching for a knife with a high tip and big belly - namely one of our old Ken Onion for Shun/Kai chef’s knives. My wife will also grab one of these from time to time. We have a 6” and an 8” - the latter shown here:

Unfortunately, there are ridges running along the sides of the bolster near the spine making it uncomfortable after a few minutes of cutting - reminding me of why I don’t like the knife. Apparently, I’m not the only one based on internet comments.

At first, I thought it was the heft of the Onion that I liked but the more I think about it the more I’m convinced it is the profile - more German than French I think.

With the heel flat to the surface, the tip on the 8 inch is about 35mm off the surface; for the 6 inch Onion, the tip is about 25mm off the surface.

I do realize that rocking is dangerous for j-knives because of the risk of applying too much torque if the blade walks across the board. I also realize that the German profile is not typical of j-knives.

I was looking at your section of 240mm French style gyutos, and then looking to see what is available in 210 or even 180. I thought the Kohetsu and Gihei HAP40 210s had the biggest bellies but it is not always clear how much of a curve there is from the photos. I’ve also been looking at some of the Harukaze. They also seem to have a prominent swooping profile. Can you tell me how high the tips of these are from the board?

I’d prefer to stay below $300 and I realize the Gihei is a bit more. I also have read some trash talk about the Kohetsus. Having been the victim myself of some unfair anonymous online reviews, I wanted to hear from you directly about this. Most concerning to me, since I’m a lefty, are the comments about the blade not being perfectly 50-50.

Second search: a lot of garlic in our cooking. A lot of (carefully) smashing cloves with the side of a blade. My wife really enjoys the Masakage ko-bunka, but she says she is afraid to use the side of that blade for this because it is so light weight. Any suggestions for something with a little heft, and length in-between the 135 and 185 bunkas we have? Not necessarily another bunka, and looking for a reasonable amount of belly. This one should be stainless; I’d consider semi stainless or stainless clad for the other. Wa handles for both.

Thank you for taking the time to help me.

Jeff

[Kalaeb]

As a dedicated rocker, tough one. The new Tojiro on the site looks like it might work profile wise, but the edge looks almost too thin. https://www.chefknivestogo.com/toatstdagy241.html

I rock a fair amount as well and have always found my Tanaka well suited for the task.

Another outlier that you will not hear about much is the Warther. Their chef knife is well suited for rocking, they do a good job with the steel. This is one of my guilty pleasure knives.

[Robstreperous]

There was a sticky thread SteveG put up on the old forum that listed rocking profile knives.

I tried a quick hunt but couldn't immediately locate it.

Anyone else remember / know where to find that sticky?

[gladius]

There was a sticky thread SteveG put up on the old forum that listed rocking profile knives.

I tried a quick hunt but couldn't immediately locate it.

Anyone else remember / know where to find that sticky?

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https://www.chefknivestogoforum.com/gyu ... t9569.html

[gladius]

In a 180mm size, I'd suggest a Kohetsu HAP40 Gyuto 180mm
In a 210mm, I'd suggest a Masakage Yuki White #2 Gyuto 210mm

Both are good performing knives.

[braindoc]

Mark:

Thank you for posting my inquiry.

Here is a photo of the Onion knife that is referenced in my inquiry -

8B2DA2FD-7F65-4F37-94D4-6F15B81AB8E1.jpeg (13.26 KiB) Viewed 1841 times

[gladius]

This Doi has the curve of the Onion but out of your price range...

[gladius]

The Kramer Euroline might work for you, on sale (within budget) right now too...

[braindoc]

Thank you all for commenting.

That Doi is pretty, looks a bit like a butcher knife. I wish the Euroline had a Japanese handle, but the 6inch might fit the bill for the “garlic smasher” we asked for.

Whether I go with a 180 or a 210, I want the profile to be recognizably different from the fairly flat profiles of the Kanehide 185 bunka and Kurosaki Shizuku 210 gyuto. I realize that I’m not going to get a true German profile rocker - and that’s OK. I do want a wa handle.

Any comparison between the Gihei and Kohetsu HAP gyutos? Do these fit the bill? (I’m looking at the 210s with custom handles, btw.). The Gihei is over budget, but I do want a little flash! Does anyone know how high off the board their tips are?

Any other suggestions for the second knife? 150-165mm, stainless a must for this one, with some belly, and more heft than the Masakage ko bunka. Also, wa handle.

[lsboogy]

I would takea look at either getting a KS profile knife (French) or looking for an old Sabatier on the web. If you can find a decent condition Nogent Sab from the 50's/earlt 60's you will have a good carbon steel blade that take a very good edge, and has a profile that allows you to do all cutting with it - Mark sells KS knives

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/clfr25prgy.html

And don't be put off by a 240+ mm knife - even at home I tend to grab 240 and bigger - just used to it - and you have less angle change on the handle per height with a lnger blade - easier to control while you rock

[michael1778]

And don't be put off by a 240+ mm knife - even at home I tend to grab 240 and bigger - just used to it - and you have less angle change on the handle per height with a lnger blade - easier to control while you rock

So true! I was not consciously aware of one reason I like 270mm-ish blades until I watched my use. If I needed to rock it was not as much of a challenge. More broadly, I like having a multi-purpose edge immediately in my hand for different cutting tasks or styles. Rocking longer blades is easier to me.

[braindoc]

In a 180mm size, I'd suggest a Kohetsu HAP40 Gyuto 180mm
In a 210mm, I'd suggest a Masakage Yuki White #2 Gyuto 210mm

Both are good performing knives.

Gladius:

I’m not sure why I haven’t been looking at Masakage. We are very happy with the performance of their ko-bunka. Maybe I was too fixated on trying different makers. In any case, can you tell me a little more about why you recommend that Yuki over the Kohetsu (or Gihei) HAP 210? Similar bellies on these?

[gladius]

...can you tell me a little more about why you recommend that Yuki over the Kohetsu (or Gihei) HAP 210? Similar bellies on these?

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The Yuki is a very good knife with a general purpose profile that rocks well. It is high performance and easy maintenance: stainless clad and easy to keep sharp. It is also a handsome knife, especially with the new custom handles. What more could you want. I like my 240mm a lot as do many who own them...check out the reviews:

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/mayugy24.html
https://www.chefknivestogo.com/mayugy21.html

[braindoc]

Thank you Gladius. I think I’m ready to pull the trigger on the Yuki 210, but I’m not close to a decision for the second knife (150-165mm) - aka the garlic smasher.

My wife confirms that stainless is a must for her. Pretty sure she also prefers the wa handle. Is the 6” Kramer Meiji worth the price? I’m not sure I should even ask about Miyabi based on comments I’ve seen elsewhere. Didn’t think it would be so tough to find some options for her. What am I missing?

[gladius]

Thank you Gladius. I think I’m ready to pull the trigger on the Yuki 210, but I’m not close to a decision for the second knife (150-165mm) - aka the garlic smasher.

My wife confirms that stainless is a must for her. Pretty sure she also prefers the wa handle. Is the 6” Kramer Meiji worth the price? I’m not sure I should even ask about Miyabi based on comments I’ve seen elsewhere. Didn’t think it would be so tough to find some options for her. What am I missing?

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Santokus are usually thicker blades and would be a good choice for garlic smashing. Have a look at the Kato Nashiji Suminagashi Santoku 165mm <<. It is stainless, has a thick spine with a nashiji finish so garlic won't slip away. It too is a handsome knife...

[braindoc]

Hadn’t really thought about Santokus. That Kato might be the one. Now I’ll have to look at all of them to see which profile I like best, because that’s how I roll.

[lsboogy]

I've never had a Santoku that was a useful rocking knife - If you really want a rocker, you need a good belly. And don't be afraid of longer knives - my smallish (5'6") mom used a 14" Sabatier chef knife as her basic for years (I have it and a 16" model as well in my collection) - my knife when I was starting in the kitchen was a 10" (240) blade. I switched to smaller ones for a while, but as i have been doing more knife work at a friends catering business I have been switching to bigger and bigger knives. I see very few people in professional settings with less than 240's for prep work - I use a 210 for line work and when I have a 210 in my hand it feels small now - kind of like a big petty, but very nimble and able to both trim and flay with. Given that my daily is a 260 Carter Hopkins blade now, even a 240 feels small. You will get used to a bigger knife quickly, and the reason for doing it will be apparent in short order as well - especially if you get a very light, thin, long knife (laser) - My CHII 265 is about 2.05mm at heel - super thin, super tough, and just plain a beast in the kitchen - controllable beast at that - product just falls apart when it comes out to play.

You can see my favorite knife here - thing meets every expectaion and then some

https://www.chefknivestogoforums.com/vi ... 24#p104224