Takeda Sharpening

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Peter Nowlan
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Takeda Sharpening

Post by Peter Nowlan »

http://sharpener-pete.blogspot.com/

I used to struggle with Takeda Knife Sharpening. I have the Takeda hand held stone which works quite nicely but I wanted to sharpen it “normally”. I didn’t really struggle with it but I know folks that do. I put my personal technique up on my Blog. The biggest thing of course is the zero grind which actually makes sharpening the knife easier theoretically. I just had to figure out the pressure point locations.

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Altadan
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Re: Takeda Sharpening

Post by Altadan »

Thanks so much for sharing this resource Peter!
“If we conquer our passions it is more from their weakness than from our strength.”
― François de La Rochefoucauld

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Re: Takeda Sharpening

Post by Xuanfusion »

Takeda blades are so thin , it is very hard for me to try to sharping them evenly , will slowly to working on it ! lol

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Re: Takeda Sharpening

Post by Robstreperous »

Hi Peter. As usual... an excellent article. Thank you for it.

You've confirmed something I've been fiddling with in practice: The finger placement thing right before switching stones. It's what I kind of "migrated to" on my own.

Since I don't sharpen enough to have my muscle memory locked in for Takedas I always use the sharpie trick when I'm working on one of his knives. Amazing what it reveals about your technique... Anyway, one of those things was I was a little light on the edge... moving my fingers down the blade face solved that problem.

For me, I always endeavor to try to maintain the same zero grnd angle at the edge as fruther up the blade face so I don't consciously raise the angle but in practice I know I do ultimately.

Anyway thanks for another good article on how to sharpen these wonderful blades. I know they're perplexing to some.. as they were to me when I tried sharpening them normally... But once learned so rewarding...

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Re: Takeda Sharpening

Post by Peter Nowlan »

You’re very welcome.
Something else I do now and I can’t remember if I mentioned this before. With the Takeda and it’s wide bevels, matching the two sides was difficult for me. I’m strictly talking cosmetics here. Sharpening with one hand left one side not as uniformly polished as the other. This goes for any knife with a wide bevel where a highly polished edge is the goal. So I trained myself to sharpen with my left hand and that changed things for the better. It’s got to do with the direction of the scratch patterns.
The other advantage of switching hands for me is that the bevels, on any knife now are perfectly matched. Even if I just do the Initial burr formation using right and left hand does the trick. I can go to my dominant hand after that and the result is the same, evenly matched bevels in terms of width.
Peter

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Re: Takeda Sharpening

Post by Robstreperous »

Ha! What and eye opener. Know what?

It's never ever occurred to me to try to sharpen both sides with the same hand! I've always used my right for one side and left side for the other and --- know what? I've always struggled with the opposite problem you mention... I'm significantly better and more consistent with my dominant hand!

Go figure...

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Re: Takeda Sharpening

Post by Peter Nowlan »

I tried something slightly different today on my Takeda. I put the info on my Instagram where I’m “peternowlan” if you want to read it. Very minor change with a noticeable improvement, for me that is.

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Re: Takeda Sharpening

Post by gladius »

Got a link Peter or care to summarize here?
Not all of us do social media. :)

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Re: Takeda Sharpening

Post by Drewski »

gladius wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:48 pm
Got a link Peter or care to summarize here?
Not all of us do social media. :)
He's just in it for the followers :lol: Just kidding, Peter. Great post btw. A video would be awesome to demonstrate, but probably really hard to make.

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Re: Takeda Sharpening

Post by Peter Nowlan »

Okay I’ll do a video only if you Follow me 😅

Seriously though I’ll do one.
Thanks.

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Re: Takeda Sharpening

Post by bruin »

If I understand this new post correctly, you basically changed the knife from its normal “zero grind” into the edge to one with a micro bevel, or normal edge bevel. Interesting this made it sharper and gave it better edge retention, I would have guessed the slightly more obtuse angle would be better for retention but worse for sharpness.

Thanks for your insight, I love to read about this stuff especially with knives with somewhat atypical grinds/bevels like Takedas. I haven’t had my hands on one myself yet but I would like to someday.

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Re: Takeda Sharpening

Post by Peter Nowlan »

Actually what I do is increase angle by about 2-4 deg at the edge. I form a burr and remove it. Then I drop the angle to zero and do the polishing work including the edge area. I
Do this on every stone.
At the end I can’t see a secondary bevel. I don’t see it as a micro bevel but perhaps it is. I see a micro bevel as a bevel applied with a very light stroke up at about 30 deg.

I just noticed that the edge is more stable this way.
To be clear.
I sharpen it at a very slightly raised Angle but then I drop the blade back down flat on the stone and repeat the process with less pressure, I’m polishing the edge and bevels now. When I was done the edge was extremely sharp, hair popping shop and quite stable. I couldn’t detect any secondary bevel, I didn’t want that.

This is just something I tried and I liked the results. Perhaps I’m
Breaking the Takeda sharpening rules😊

I’ve also used the Takeda hand held stones following Takeda Sans direction. Very easy and very effective.

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Re: Takeda Sharpening

Post by atang »

Peter Nowlan wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 6:23 am
Actually what I do is increase angle by about 2-4 deg at the edge. I form a burr and remove it. Then I drop the angle to zero and do the polishing work including the edge area. I
Do this on every stone.
At the end I can’t see a secondary bevel. I don’t see it as a micro bevel but perhaps it is. I see a micro bevel as a bevel applied with a very light stroke up at about 30 deg.
The term “micro-bevel” is a process that is familiar to some and executed in a similar fashion by many. Though the lines begin to blur when the micro-bevel is so subtle that it is almost unnoticeable and almost invisible. This is the same steps as the process in cleanly removing a burr...(aside from drawing the knife across wood or felt block to strip the burr, different topic).
It’s almost as if the “main” burr from the primary bevel is removed by the steps taken to produce the microbevel. Then the burr formation created by the micro bevel is removed. Almost resulting in a “compound bevel”. But how small is a micro-bevel before it can be simply referenced as “cleanly removing the burr”?
I’m definitely not the type of person that enjoys applying labels and categorizing things as I’m more of a free form type thinker. Just putting out there, the varying levels and degree of how far or how little one may take the process until they reach a level of satisfaction or completion of the work done.
I’ve questioned this myself (especially with single bevels, and wether or not to raise the ura to apex the edge... I do; not to create a micro bevel, but rather to ensure the burr is completely and cleanly removed as possible) and sometimes find myself discovering new perspectives or sequences/methods in the process. Rules are meant to be broken right?? Thanks for the insight Peter. Much appreciated.
WATERSTONE KNIFE SHARPENING
adriantang@email.com
Lincoln Nebraska

Peter Nowlan
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Re: Takeda Sharpening

Post by Peter Nowlan »

I always enjoy your replies Adrian thanks. As for micro bevels, I’m the type of guy that just doesn’t believe everything I read about sharpening or follow something because it’s popular. I’m
Not suggesting that everyone else does of course. Perhaps it’s a lack of understanding on my part but I’m not convinced that a micro bevel is going to make a big difference in terms of edge retention. How do we prove something like that anyway. It may help a chef get through a shift but I can’t see it making a huge impact.
The other grey area for me is how a finishing grit can impact edge retention. Why does a 1k finish last longer than an 8k finish. From a metallurgical perspective I don’t get it. I understand that a toothy edge from 1k can leave a perception of sharpness but why would it stay sharp longer. In fact according to Chad Ward the polished edge will hold up longer from a physics point of view.
All things that just pop up in my mind but don’t really influence my technique or choice of finishing grit. I pretty much just base that on the steel. I’m not going to pull out my beloved 5k-8k finishing stones on $40.00 knives. For me, the only way I can I influence edge retention is by choice of angle.
Now if I was a chef and I’m control of my knife that I sharpened I can see a micro bevel ranking me to get through a pile of veggies before honing. However since I do t see the knife after I return it I don’t know how it will be treated, I’ve often seen how it is treated so I know that a micro bevel, even if applied by the master of micro bevels would make a difference.
Just rambling away here. I’ve got 10 knives on the table, gotta go. Thanks for putting up with my rambling.

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Re: Takeda Sharpening

Post by Wjhunt »

Hi Peter,
I could not tell from the pictures on your blog if the Takeda had any type of s grind or hollow in the mid section of the knife. From reading your blog, it appears to be a Scandi or zero grind. I’m just wondering how it would change your approach if it was an older Takeda with the s grind.
I’m not a pro chef with perfect technique (I do try to be careful) but I notice knives with an 8k edge sink into my end grain cutting board and I think that’s the problem with the edge retention. A micro bevel helps with that but I just stop at 3k Naniwa Pro on knives that see a lot of board contact.
I’m always trying to learn. You are a great source for knowledge. Thank you for sharing and explaining your techniques.

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Re: Takeda Sharpening

Post by Peter Nowlan »

Hi there and thanks. Yes it was a zero grind and that’s the experience with every Takeda that I’ve sharpened. If it wasn’t like you mention I’d have to choose a sharpening angle and sharpen it. So the blade would not be totally flat on the stone. Like any other knife.

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